Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

qz.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 193 posts

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#81

Post by seanp2k2 »

woolvalley wrote: post #25

Replace these scooters with bicycles and all of the same issues apply. Imagine if real self locking bicycles were somehow theft proof and private citizens started putting their bicycles willy nilly everywhere. That is the only new issue that is generated by these companies, and creating more parking for bikes and other low speed vehicles is the eventual solution. The fact that these dockless bike companies have effec…

Not sure how much of it is that they're theft-proof vs anyone who wants to steal one either already has or doesn't care enough to do so. You could e.g. line the inside of a U-Haul with RF-blocking material and load up a ton of these, strip the radios in there, and sell them, but if you were to try this at a large enough scale it would likely be worth them going after you. If they lose a few here and there it's probably just cheaper and easier to move on. It looks like they're using either http://www.segway.com/products/consumer-lifestyle/es2-kicksc... or https://www.amazon.com/Electric-long-range-Fold-n-Carry-Ultr... for most of these companies. The resale value probably isn't great for beat-up rental ones, especially if they still have any of the company branding on them or have e.g. obviously ripped apart electronics (or both).

Bicycles can be parted out if they're expensive, or re-sold on Craigslist very easily. Many less people are in the market for these things, so it's probably just not worth the risk + small expected profits to steal them.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#82

Post by nshelly »

klochner wrote: post #10
justboxing wrote: post #4

These Electric Scooters in San Francisco have become a total nuisance. I've seen quite a few riders ride them on the sidewalks and 1 person even ran into a dude on a wheelchair who was trying to get onto the sidewalk after crossing the road on his wheelchair. The last safe place for Pedestrians and disabled persons -- the Sidewalk -- is under attack. The startups that have created this nuisance also park these scoote…

i love them. They could easily take half the cars off the road and transform downtown. They're more convenient and a fraction of the cost of an uber, and they're fun to ride. People should not be riding them on the sidewalks, i'm expecting that to change quickly.

I'm a fan too. I think we'd see fewer people take Uber/Lyft's for short drives (less than 2 miles), but commute traffic will stay the same due to "induced demand." Any reduction in the number of cars on the road will be met by more people willing to do a "super commute" from outside the city. Right now the traffic into cities is dependent on the jobs (and their pay) available downtown, and people's willingness to commute from afar. If the number of jobs increase, or highway capacity increases (along with added housing in the suburbs), more people will take to the roads and the roads will still be clogged. Only if a lot of mass transit is added to distant suburbs and no growth in suburban housing would the amount of traffic decrease. Anyways, vehicular traffic could still be reduced during non-peak hours which is a great thing.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#83

Post by PhasmaFelis »

s17n wrote: post #58
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's getting better, but a lot of places still don't have bike lanes. I'll ride on the sidewalk if I don't feel safe in the road, but I'm extra careful when I do.

So basically, you make peds feel unsafe so that you can feel safe.

No. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16928450

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#84

Post by notatoad »

justboxing wrote: post #7
ryanobjc wrote: post #5

I initially was bah humbugy about these scooters, but after reading an article that points out we have acres of space devoted to private automobiles, and that it really wouldn't be hard to accommodate these electric scooters, I changed my mind. They look fun, they seem more flexible than the hard-wired go-bike stations, and they don't seem super expensive. It's pretty obvious that our cities are broken, and SF needs…

> As for the self righteousness of "only peds belong on sidewalks", I get tired of that Nothing self-righteous about that. Sidewalks are -- as the name itself suggests - meant for WALKING on the SIDE of the road, not for riding scooters and other vehicles which pose a danger to other people walking. Only exception being people on wheelchairs, but they aren't driving at break-neck speeds like an electric scooter rider…

The problem with this is that it's the same attitude as the car drivers have about "their" roads. If we listen to the drivers who say nobody but cars should ever be on the road, and the peds who say nobody but pedestrians should ever be on the sidewalk, what's left for cyclists, scooters, or any other form of transit?

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#85

Post by [deleted] »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #73
edaemon wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with American cities is that we only have two spaces: the road and the sidewalk. Bike lanes are sometimes added to roads, but they're still just lanes on the road. The roads have all been built and designed for cars. Sidewalks have been built for pedestrians. Bikes, scooters, skateboards, etc. just don't fit well into either space. There's a great YouTube channel, BicycleDutch [1], that goes into some det…

In the US there is also https://www.railstotrails.org/ which is trying to convert old railways into trails suitable for e.g. bicycles.

[deleted]

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#86

Post by cup-of-tea »

bigtunacan wrote: post #49
zethraeus wrote: post #36

This article makes some throwaway concession to the 'far less dire consequences' but this is huge . These vehicles have far fewer negative externalities than cars. People don't die when they get hit by scooters and bikes. We can charge them with renewable energy. They don't take space from pedestrians as cars do. These are a huge clear good for cities. (And yes, people should gtfo the sidewalk, companies should educa…

While the death toll is fairly low and declining, just to be clear, pedestrians do die from being stuck by cyclists. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.citylab.com/amp/article/381...

The article doesn't even talk about deaths, only injuries. Compared to the number of pedestrians killed by motor vehicles the figures seem insignificant. More people die each year from choking.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#87

Post by jateenjoshi »

imgabe wrote: post #37
scarecrowbob wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ride a lot and in traffic. I've occasionally thought the same thought you're thinking here and to be honest, I will do whatever I think is safest for me. But riding on the sidewalk really does mean that the burden of taking care of pedestrians is all on me. And when I've thought those kinds of thoughts, I have to recognize that it feels very similar to the arguments I hear from motorists when they try and put the b…

I disagree. If you were biking around staring at your phone and weaving into oncoming traffic, is that someone else's fault? Being in a public space necessarily means exercising a degree of care and consideration for other people. From everyone .

> If you were biking around staring at your phone and weaving into oncoming traffic, is that someone else's fault?

No, because the law states that a bike on the road with cars is equal to other vehicles and has no higher priority in regards to right of way.

In contrast, a biker on a sidewalk is not considered equal to a pedestrian. In fact, it is illegal in most cases, but probably not illegal or dangerous enough to warrant strict enforcement.

I consider pedestrians to have just the responsibility of paying attention to their surroundings to not inconvenience other pedestrians, not bikes or scooters.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#88

Post by ZeroGravitas »

cstejerean wrote: post #78
mellabo wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risk of a fatality or life changing accident is much much higher for a cyclist colliding with a car, than it is for a pedestrian being hit by a bike

The risk may be higher but it's not insignificant. Here is an example from the UK: "The number of pedestrians fatally or seriously injured in collisions with cyclists has doubled since 2006" https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/07/number-pedestria...

If it was really significant you'd have quoted the number, not the headline:

In 2016 three pedestrians died in such incidents across Great Britain while a further 108 sustained serious injury.

But note, none of these deaths occurred on the pavement:

In 2016, 43 pedestrians died in collisions involving a vehicle on the footway or verge. None of them involved a cycle.

-- https://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/pe...

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#89

Post by notaki »

I'm all for having more scooters parked on sidewalks and less Uber/Lyft vehicles blocking bike Lanes and adding to downtown traffic.

The scooters are much needed, obviously. But, as usual, the media and city are crying about it and all you read in the news is "scooter mayhem" like this is the scooter apocalypse. Find something else to write and worry about, Jesus.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#90

Post by bigtunacan »

cup-of-tea wrote: post #86
bigtunacan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the death toll is fairly low and declining, just to be clear, pedestrians do die from being stuck by cyclists. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.citylab.com/amp/article/381...

The article doesn't even talk about deaths, only injuries. Compared to the number of pedestrians killed by motor vehicles the figures seem insignificant. More people die each year from choking.

First paragraph from the article...

"The recent death of Jill Tarlov, a pedestrian killed by a bicyclist in New York’s Central Park —the second such incident in two months—engendered a flurry of commentary and analysis of the dangers of cyclists determined to train for speed in one of the city’s most crowded recreational havens."

It goes on to discuss that most deaths are due to head injuries.

Post reply on HN