Now we just need to start arresting people for jaywalking across the sidewalk.
Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced
71–80 of 193 posts
Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have more sympathy for pedestrians. They go around 2-3mph. Auto traffic around 25-50. Bikes and scooters are way closer to cars than pedestrians. So, its a matter of risking the safety of cyclist, or pedestrians. No clear win there I can see.
walking 3-4, scooter 10-15, cars 25-60. each is about 3x more than the previous. But it's a stupid comparison for safety. Colliding with a scooter will rarely be fatal, regardless of the 3x. But cyclist often get killed.
See also: https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/535/why-does-kin...
There's a LOT more energy being transferred into whatever the car hits both because it's going much faster and because it's much heavier.
Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced
#73I initially was bah humbugy about these scooters, but after reading an article that points out we have acres of space devoted to private automobiles, and that it really wouldn't be hard to accommodate these electric scooters, I changed my mind. They look fun, they seem more flexible than the hard-wired go-bike stations, and they don't seem super expensive. It's pretty obvious that our cities are broken, and SF needs…
The problem with American cities is that we only have two spaces: the road and the sidewalk. Bike lanes are sometimes added to roads, but they're still just lanes on the road. The roads have all been built and designed for cars. Sidewalks have been built for pedestrians. Bikes, scooters, skateboards, etc. just don't fit well into either space. There's a great YouTube channel, BicycleDutch [1], that goes into some det…
In the US there is also https://www.railstotrails.org/ which is trying to convert old railways into trails suitable for e.g. bicycles.
Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
When there are pedestrians, cyclists and cars sharing a space with only two different speed zones, cyclists driving on the sidewalk will have to limit themselves to walking speed, or cars driving on the same road as bicycles need to slow down to cyclist speed. The same "children cycling on the road" argument (which is only dangerous if the cars on the road are going faster than the children) can be applied to childre…
1) An auto going 30kmh is a great deal more dangerous to a pedestrian or cyclist than a cycle doing the same. 2) Cars pose a risk to cyclists, even if cars are going the same speed, which is a fictional scenario, as many motorists don't go the same speed as cyclists and instead overtake them dangerously ASAP. 3) The risk posed by cycles to pedestrians is far less than the danger posed by autos to cycles.
Driveways/sidewalk crossings are not necessarily designed for cycling speed traffic. Motorists do not expect bicycles when crossing sidewalks.
Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
>As for the self righteousness of "only peds belong on sidewalks", I get tired of that. I strongly disagree with this. I've owned an electric scooter for over a year now and I learned real fast that it's super dangerous to ride on the sidewalk. The problem with pedestrians is that they are not looking out for scooters. People will wander into your path and depending on how fast you're going you may collide. Also you…
I bike commute. I stay on the road as much as possible, but there's parts where it's impractical. So, I get on the sidewalk, go slow, and yield to pedestrians. That said, Jesus Christ people. Take out your headphones, put your phone away, and freaking pay attention to your surroundings. People wander around like they're the baby from the Popeye cartoons expecting everything else to miraculously flow around them. Forg…
I walk commute often, and especially when I'm traveling. Sure, cars are dangerous, and bicycles are often irresponsible, but pedestrians are the worst. They'll walk four abreast, gather in large groups at chokepoints, block traffic to take photos, stop for no reason. And no one really cares because most of this bad behavior is limited to sidewalks, so it only affects other pedestrians. But it makes it damn difficult to walk at a decent clip. I'd really love to see "walking lanes" introduced, like bike lanes, for people who are actually walking and not treating the sidewalk like a goddamn park.
Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
Police just need to start issuing tickets. Seems like a solid and easy revenue stream. Both riding on the sidewalk and riding without a helmet is illegal. Haven't seen any rider wearing one. CA Law: "An operator of a motorized scooter must be at least 16 years old, possess a valid drivers license or instruction permit, and wear a helmet. A motorized scooter may be operated on a bicycle path, trail or bikeway, but not…
What do you do when you get to a 35mph zone with no bike lane?
For bicycles in California, this is the law: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection....
CODE TEXT
VEHICLE CODE - VEH
DIVISION 11. RULES OF THE ROAD [21000 - 23336] ( Division 11 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )
CHAPTER 1. Obedience to and Effect of Traffic Laws [21000 - 21296] ( Chapter 1 enacted by Stats.
1959, Ch. 3. )
ARTICLE 4. Operation of Bicycles [21200 - 21213] ( Article 4 added by Stats. 1963, Ch. 479. )
21202.
(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of
traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the
right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
(3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving
objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes)
that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of
Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a “substandard width lane” is a lane that is too
narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
(4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.
(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway of a highway, which highway carries traffic in
one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near the left-hand curb
or edge of that roadway as practicable.
(Amended by Stats. 1996, Ch. 674, Sec. 4. Effective January 1, 1997.)
A motorized scooter is a two-wheeled device that has handlebars, a floorboard designed to be
stood upon when riding, and is powered by a motor.
The Vehicle Code (VC) does not require registration, license plates to be displayed or the
scooter to be insured. Local authorities can regulate the registration for these scooters
pursuant to VC §21225.
Even though insurance is not required, owners of these scooters should contact their insurance
company to determine if coverage is available.
An operator of a motorized scooter must be at least 16 years old, possess a valid drivers
license or instruction permit, and wear a helmet.
A motorized scooter may be operated on a bicycle path, trail or bikeway, but not on a sidewalk.
On the roadway, it must be operated in the bicycle lane, if there is one. On roads without
bicycle lanes, motorized scooters may operate where the speed limit is 25 mph or less, and shall
be ridden as close to the right hand curb as possible, except to pass or turn left. VC § 21226
(D) prohibits alteration of motorized scooters.Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced
#77I'm frankly amazed these things aren't instantly stripped for their batteries. How long does an unattended bicycle last in San Francisco? Minutes?
Longer than minutes. It's not NYC. I'm guessing that these companies just eat the loss for now.
Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
So basically, you make peds feel unsafe so that you can feel safe.
The risk of a fatality or life changing accident is much much higher for a cyclist colliding with a car, than it is for a pedestrian being hit by a bike
The risk may be higher but it's not insignificant. Here is an example from the UK:
"The number of pedestrians fatally or seriously injured in collisions with cyclists has doubled since 2006"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/07/number-pedestria...
Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have more sympathy for pedestrians. They go around 2-3mph. Auto traffic around 25-50. Bikes and scooters are way closer to cars than pedestrians. So, its a matter of risking the safety of cyclist, or pedestrians. No clear win there I can see.
walking 3-4, scooter 10-15, cars 25-60. each is about 3x more than the previous. But it's a stupid comparison for safety. Colliding with a scooter will rarely be fatal, regardless of the 3x. But cyclist often get killed.
The chance of collision should also be considered. Since intersection collisions are the same or worse for riding a bicycle on the sidewalk, we should consider overtaking while there is insufficient space which seems like it would be a strong function of extra space on either the road or the sidewalk and relative speeds. Im not sure why you listed 60 as I'm not really aware of any roads with such a limit that also reasonably expect bicycle traffic.
Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced
#80I'm frankly amazed these things aren't instantly stripped for their batteries. How long does an unattended bicycle last in San Francisco? Minutes?
What's the secondary market for batteries?