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America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

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Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#101

Post by throwaway1894 »

kadenshep wrote: post #93
montyf wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also remember a time when human decency wasn't shrouded in the pejorative "political correctness". Not sure what you're getting at with this rhetoric (no wonder you're a fan of vague, politically-correct statements -- I have no idea what the second part of your comment means). People don't like political correctness because it's a manipulation tool of policy makers, used to misdirect and to prevent unwanted discu…

>Not sure what you're getting at with this rhetoric Yes you do. > People don't like political correctness because it's a manipulation tool of policy makers No, some people don't like it because it lays bare their complete lack of human decency, or standards of any sort. >used to misdirect and to prevent unwanted discussion "I don't want to discuss topics that might shed light on the injustices of our society or make…

Definition of injustice are pretty broad and situational, wouldn't you agree? And besides, breaking down the actual phrase, it means to act within the "correctness" of the political climate du jour. Depending on the power brokers you subscribe to, that could mean a variety of things. Not aimed at you, but the overblown sense of agency and importance that people give their own definitions seems to be part of the problem.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#102

Post by briandear »

kadenshep wrote: post #87
montyf wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely right, but HN users don't realize that most of America exists outside of their ideological bubble. > For example, if child of meth heads grows up to be president, he's yet another privileged white president, not an outsider who overcame adversity. It's racism and nothing else. Thing is, it's OK to be racist nowadays, as long as you're a liberal. Edit: to the guy quoting the dictionary below me, this…

>Thing is, it's OK to be racist nowadays, as long as you're a liberal. Citation needed, but I know you're just lying. The "left" in the U.S. has been the only political wing to consistently call out and punish its own members for unacceptable behavior. Meanwhile on the right, they gladly promote and endorse members who engage in racism, sexual assault, pedophilia, and ignoring people's rights. All while actively taki…

Louis Farrakhan. Joy Reid. Hillary Clinton (who once famously called young black males ‘predators.’) Joe Biden, who called Barrack Obama a “clean, articulate” black candidate in contrast to the implied “uncleanliness” of one of the first black presidential candidates, Jesse Jackson.

Then there is the soft bigotry of low expectations that’s famous among the left: “oh, these people are of a certain. race, so we don’t expect them to be able to pass this test or accomplish this goal.”

Bigotry and racism on the left is not as obvious, but I would argue, even more insidious.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#103

Post by kadenshep »

throwaway1894 wrote: post #101
kadenshep wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not sure what you're getting at with this rhetoric Yes you do. > People don't like political correctness because it's a manipulation tool of policy makers No, some people don't like it because it lays bare their complete lack of human decency, or standards of any sort. >used to misdirect and to prevent unwanted discussion "I don't want to discuss topics that might shed light on the injustices of our society or make…

Definition of injustice are pretty broad and situational, wouldn't you agree? And besides, breaking down the actual phrase, it means to act within the "correctness" of the political climate du jour. Depending on the power brokers you subscribe to, that could mean a variety of things. Not aimed at you, but the overblown sense of agency and importance that people give their own definitions seems to be part of the probl…

>Depending on the power brokers you subscribe to, that could mean a variety of things.

It's usage and definition is well understood when used by members of a certain political faction in the U.S. It's not a mystery. Exact same thing when these specific people use "SJW" as a pejorative.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#104

Post by justin66 »

zeveb wrote: post #89
justin66 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The short summary is that he actually does not believe that abortion should be punished by hanging as you suggest. An excerpt: It wasn't really my suggestion, it was a quote from a larger NYT article. Sorry, I should have sited it, but it hardly seems crucial to what I was saying: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/05/business/media/kevin-will... Evidently the decision to fire him was informed by more than a single il…

> Let's be honest, from the viewpoint of an Atlantic editor, hiring a guy who thinks it's a funny joke to make would have been as bad as hiring a guy who actually believes it. The Atlantic hired Ta-Nehisi Coates , who is far more extreme on the other side of things. It wouldn't have hurt to have someone to counterbalance him.

Te-Nehasi Coates went from being a nobody to a prominent writer during his tenure at The Atlantic. It's possible their readership would enjoy a conservative "counterbalance" of some kind in addition to the conservative contributors they currently employ, but if there's a group that's likely to be offended in a big way by jokes (or sincere, heartfelt positions) that involve hanging people, this is it. The only anomaly here is that the guy was hired in the first place.

> far more extreme on the other side of things

If you say so.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#105

Post by assblaster »

ModernMech wrote: post #77
assblaster wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with your statement on religious intolerance, is that wanting someone to change the fundamentals of their religion can be equated with intolerance of that religion, even having a term specific to it: Islamophobia. I think reform of Islam must involve accommodating people who are considered sinners. The problem is that communicating this critique of Islam can be considered hate speech by the tribalists.

When people talk about religious tolerance in the US as an issue, they usually are referring to letting white evangelicals get their way politically and culturally. For instance, I know many people who feel their religious liberty was infringed when gay marriage was legalized, but also voted for a guy who called for the "complete and total shutdown of Muslims entering the US". It's not about religious liberty as a co…

In what way does "White" play into this discussion?

Islam, whether practiced by whites, blacks, Hispanics, Pacific Islanders, is clear in its denouncement of homosexuals as people. Islam doesn't even separate the act from the person, the person must be killed as prescribed in the Quran.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#106

Post by kadenshep »

briandear wrote: post #102
kadenshep wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Thing is, it's OK to be racist nowadays, as long as you're a liberal. Citation needed, but I know you're just lying. The "left" in the U.S. has been the only political wing to consistently call out and punish its own members for unacceptable behavior. Meanwhile on the right, they gladly promote and endorse members who engage in racism, sexual assault, pedophilia, and ignoring people's rights. All while actively taki…

Louis Farrakhan. Joy Reid. Hillary Clinton (who once famously called young black males ‘predators.’) Joe Biden, who called Barrack Obama a “clean, articulate” black candidate in contrast to the implied “uncleanliness” of one of the first black presidential candidates, Jesse Jackson. Then there is the soft bigotry of low expectations that’s famous among the left: “oh, these people are of a certain. race, so we don’t e…

>Louis Farrakhan. Joy Reid. Hillary Clinton

These people were called out (or continue to be called out) for their actions and words, and unlike their counter parts on the right had the intelligence to correct for it. Whether you believe it to be sincere is kind of irrelevant, so I'm just going to stave off that talking point right there. Notable "leftist" institutions like the SPLC track such statements and view points and won't play disingenuous games with who they point a spotlight on.

>but I would argue, even more insidious.

Please do. I'd love to see how "bigotry" on the left is somehow equivalent to the decades of economic and social policies advanced by the right+ in the U.S.; policies that have quite literally decimated entire communities across the nation via incarceration, lack of education, and lack of capital access.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#107

Post by okmokmz »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #15
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When the desire to maintain a common identity is based on racial or ethnic identity... then that desire can be accurately described as racist or at best xenophobic. This would be true and understandable if immigration wasn't so incredibly skewed towards Mexicans, but it is skewed. There are over 11 million illegal immigrants in a country of 300 million, the majority of which are Mexican/Latino. That is an incredibl…

How many of the problems the US faces are genuinely caused by immigration, and how many would change if immigration ended? That's the crux of the matter. Factually, in the UK virtually none of our social and economic problems have been caused by immigration. When you look into the facts, unaffordable housing, a creaking health service, street violence, and job losses are all effects of policy, not specific groups of…

>the people pushing the policies that created our problems are also the most enthusiastic using immigrants as a scapegoat and misdirection

Yup, Trump's wall is a fantastic example

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#108

Post by basch »

briandear wrote: post #97
chongli wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I look at the opioid epidemic as a symptom, not the problem itself. The broader problem is globalization and the local inequalities it's producing. The Heartland of the United States is being hollowed out and turned into a desolate wasteland, economically speaking. The steady advances in economic productivity are accruing to an ever-shrinking proportion of the population. The media-political circus should also be tak…

Opioid addiction is because opioids make you feel really good and they are really addictive and they had a tendency to be overprescribed. Blaming the economy for opioids is like blaming airplanes for AIDS. As far as the wasteland heartland, I am not sure if Texas is included in the heartland, but the Texas economy is one of the biggest in the world — about as large as the GDP of Canada and larger than that of South K…

Its possible to use opioids safely with the correct social support structures in place. Rituals, best practices, etc.

Theres a difference between using a drug as part of a positive experience, and habitual constant use to numb pain (whether physical, psychological, or sociological.)

https://harvardmagazine.com/2000/03/deep-cravings.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1247121 >The authors present five case histories illustrating controlled use of opiates ("chipping"). Long-term chippers tend to develop consistent social use patterns that permit and also limit use. The authors conclude that controlled use of opiates is possible and that large numbers of people are involved in such use, although they are hard to locate and identify. Controlled users are differentiated from compulsive users more by their development and maintenance of social drug use rituals than by such variables as availability of the drug and personality and family background of the user.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#109

Post by wilsonnb »

briandear wrote: post #97
chongli wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I look at the opioid epidemic as a symptom, not the problem itself. The broader problem is globalization and the local inequalities it's producing. The Heartland of the United States is being hollowed out and turned into a desolate wasteland, economically speaking. The steady advances in economic productivity are accruing to an ever-shrinking proportion of the population. The media-political circus should also be tak…

Opioid addiction is because opioids make you feel really good and they are really addictive and they had a tendency to be overprescribed. Blaming the economy for opioids is like blaming airplanes for AIDS. As far as the wasteland heartland, I am not sure if Texas is included in the heartland, but the Texas economy is one of the biggest in the world — about as large as the GDP of Canada and larger than that of South K…

What media outlets do you recommend that we look to for a more accurate assessment?

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#110

Post by okmokmz »

mantas wrote: post #75
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of the problems the US faces are genuinely caused by immigration, and how many would change if immigration ended? That's the crux of the matter. Factually, in the UK virtually none of our social and economic problems have been caused by immigration. When you look into the facts, unaffordable housing, a creaking health service, street violence, and job losses are all effects of policy, not specific groups of…

Immigrants do put pressure on housing and health services though. As well as directly causing job losses by dumping wages. Of course, a magical policy may have stopped those issues. But taking in a lot of immigrants and not changing policies accordingly is what causes havoc.

How much pressure does immigration put on housing?

According to this article the US has 18.9 million vacant homes. Even if every homeless person and illegal immigrant in the United States received a home there would still be a surplus

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-skip-bronson/post_733...

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