Live data from Hacker News

Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

bloomberg.com

61–70 of 342 posts

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#61
post #48

What's sad is that the majority of electric buses being purchased both in America and around the globe aren't manufactured in the US. We have a Silicon Valley company, Tesla, that kicked off the world-wide move to battery powered autos. Why is there not a US company recognized as the leader in buses? There are a few California companies on this list but they're tiny. Here in Michigan the leading player is French and…

John Delorean's project before the stainless steel car was a city bus, aiming for the level of comfort of inner-city buses. At the time, GM city buses had no air conditioning, windows that didn't open, and were generally unbearable. He claims, in his autobiography, that GM intentionally made shitty buses to push people to car ownership (which made a lot more money per passenger than bus sales) and sold them to city councils with as many expensive lunches as it took. GM saw the threat from his bus and sent saboteurs to cut the fuel lines of his prototype the night before the launch at the industry show. The last part is hard to credit, but it certainly made sense for GM to fill the world with uncomfortable buses.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#63
post #48

What's sad is that the majority of electric buses being purchased both in America and around the globe aren't manufactured in the US. We have a Silicon Valley company, Tesla, that kicked off the world-wide move to battery powered autos. Why is there not a US company recognized as the leader in buses? There are a few California companies on this list but they're tiny. Here in Michigan the leading player is French and…

> What's sad is that the majority of electric buses being purchased both in America and around the globe aren't manufactured in the US. Detroit should have gotten started on this, sure. But who in Detroit? There just aren't that many American coach builders left in the transit space. GM's bus division got sold off in the 80s, and eventually got sold to Volvo. Flxible eventually went out of business in the 90s (not he…

Here in Los Angeles, LADOT has a handful of battery electric buses in their fleet, for the short DASH routes near downtown [1]. LADOT is the smaller, municipal counterpart to the county's Metro system. The buses themselves are a bit shorter than an average city bus, though that is typical for DASH. I wouldn't call them tiny.

I guess that because they're so quiet, when the bus makes a turn, a loudspeaker on the front of the bus calls out, "Bus is turning right." Pretty funny to hear the first time.

[1]: https://la.streetsblog.org/2017/01/12/electric-dash-buses-to...

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#64
post #48

What's sad is that the majority of electric buses being purchased both in America and around the globe aren't manufactured in the US. We have a Silicon Valley company, Tesla, that kicked off the world-wide move to battery powered autos. Why is there not a US company recognized as the leader in buses? There are a few California companies on this list but they're tiny. Here in Michigan the leading player is French and…

I think Proterra is doing a pretty good job.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#65
post #48

What's sad is that the majority of electric buses being purchased both in America and around the globe aren't manufactured in the US. We have a Silicon Valley company, Tesla, that kicked off the world-wide move to battery powered autos. Why is there not a US company recognized as the leader in buses? There are a few California companies on this list but they're tiny. Here in Michigan the leading player is French and…

> What's sad is that the majority of electric buses being purchased both in America and around the globe aren't manufactured in the US. Detroit should have gotten started on this, sure. But who in Detroit? There just aren't that many American coach builders left in the transit space. GM's bus division got sold off in the 80s, and eventually got sold to Volvo. Flxible eventually went out of business in the 90s (not he…

Seattle + King County has battery-electric busses now. They had a trial run over the past few years but this year they’re rolling out more BEV busses without the hype vinyl wraps (I.e. they’re permanent): https://www.kiro7.com/news/all-electric-zero-emission-buses-...

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#66
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the individual countries set their own gas prices (taxed highly). All countries buy their oil/gas on the market for roughly the same price

That doesn't change the incentives though - the taxes are there for a reason. EDIT: what I mean is that removing the petrol taxes won't solve the set of environmental and political problems they face, but rather would likely make them worse.

Their shipping and distribution costs are quite different though. Petrol taxes also tend to be flat - advocates for removing them always crop up, but it's a suckers bet - you wipe out say, your road maintenance income, for (in Australia) a onetime 17c on the liter drop in price (while the price just keeps going up anyway).

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#67
post #21

It's a strange shift in affairs that China appears to have the greatest incentives (urban pollution, petroleum imports) today to advance clean transportation and energy while the US has stalled or moved backward, at least the Federal level. Western European countries, for whom fossil fuels don't seem to be an identity politics issue like in the US, are also making more progress in electrifying their transportation an…

I don't know if it really proves anything and it might be OT from your point, but, the confounding variable is that in the US - especially outside of the major urban areas - everything is just very far away in terms of miles. Lacking a car, you can expect life to be very difficult. there are still plenty of places in the US where the range of a tesla might be a borderline problem week-to-week. (though probably not as often as people think and if you plan well)

My casual observation is that smaller countries just have a lot more good options when it comes to transit because the total distances are much smaller.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#68
post #41
post #9

I think few people know that a bunch of public transit was actually electric in the early/mid 20th century. Car companies, most notably GM, conspired to convert public transport to gas to make public transit less comfortable compared to private car ownership[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...

I remember riding on Dunedin's (New Zealand) Trolley Bus service when I was very small, which were standard bus bodies that were hooked to overhead power lines. I remember the driver hooking the bus back to the power lines. Must have been about '78 or '79.

They still have those in Vancouver.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#69
post #42
post #15

Worried as I am about China's authoritarian practices and their growing influence, they sure are effective at solving environmental problems.

You may have missed this point in TFA; “China is ahead on electrifying its fleet because it has the world’s worst pollution problem. With a growing urban population and galloping energy demand, the nation’s legendary smogs were responsible for 1.6 million extra deaths in 2015, according to non-profit Berkeley Earth.” It’s great to celebrate progress, but don’t fall for the spin. A study published in Nature [1] found…

IMO conflating air polution and greenhouse gases does not make a lot of sense. CO2 has the highest impact greenhouse gas, yet it has no adverse health effects in the concentrations humans are exposed to it. In terms of CO2 emissions per capita, China is AFAIK still below EU average and 3x below the US who is by far the worst offender among highly populated developed nations. Air pollution is a problem, yes, but a different one than combating human induced climate change.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#70

Please stop linking to Bloomberg. The auto-play video at least is muted, but when you go and press the pause button it... unmutes the video. Then you have to press it again to actually pause. Fuck these guys and their dark patterns.

Bloomberg remains a well written and research news organization. Most news sites attempt to monetize their content somehow.

You point out a valid problem, but, this is hacker news, and it is completely possible to find a technical solution to your problem that doesn't involve ignoring a major news channel. Try U-block, or ghostery, the combination of which seems to prevent the video from playing entirely on my system.

EDIT: Clarity of phrasing

Post reply on HN