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Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

bloomberg.com

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Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#21

Post by danans »

It's a strange shift in affairs that China appears to have the greatest incentives (urban pollution, petroleum imports) today to advance clean transportation and energy while the US has stalled or moved backward, at least the Federal level.

Western European countries, for whom fossil fuels don't seem to be an identity politics issue like in the US, are also making more progress in electrifying their transportation and developing renewable generation - like those massive offshore turbines in the North Sea, or the more comprehensive EV charging networks.

Again, they seem to have stronger incentives: high gas/petrol prices, higher population density, tense relations with Russia - their big petroleum and natural gas supplier, and the desire to gain an advantage in clean energy technology while the US is seemingly regressing.

Perhaps states that have taken the problem seriously - wind in Texas, Iowa, EVs in CA, WA, NY, will carry the torch for the US without the Federal government's support.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#22

Post by nashashmi »

ams6110 wrote: post #18
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #14

The scale of this is astounding and wonderful: "China had about 99 percent of the 385,000 electric buses on the roads worldwide in 2017, accounting for 17 percent of the country’s entire fleet. Every five weeks, Chinese cities add 9,500 of the zero-emissions transporters—the equivalent of London’s entire working fleet, according Bloomberg New Energy Finance."

While electric buses are almost certainly an emissions win compared to the no doubt primitive and dirty Chinese diesel buses, I doubt it is it fair to call them zero-emission? China burns a lot of coal for electrical power.

Fair point but consolidating pollution emitters to a single point instead of scattering them across public roads is a good thing.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#23

Post by lopmotr »

ams6110 wrote: post #18
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #14

The scale of this is astounding and wonderful: "China had about 99 percent of the 385,000 electric buses on the roads worldwide in 2017, accounting for 17 percent of the country’s entire fleet. Every five weeks, Chinese cities add 9,500 of the zero-emissions transporters—the equivalent of London’s entire working fleet, according Bloomberg New Energy Finance."

While electric buses are almost certainly an emissions win compared to the no doubt primitive and dirty Chinese diesel buses, I doubt it is it fair to call them zero-emission? China burns a lot of coal for electrical power.

I think the main point for China is to move the pollution outside the city streets where it directly affects more people. That's nothing to do with CO2 or global warming but to do with people's health, which is obviously super important.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#24

Post by francisofascii »

airstrike wrote: post #13
sfifs wrote: post #8

While the reducing pollution piece is captured here, interestingly the reducing oil imports dependency is not captured in the article which I would imagine is equally important here.

I guess with the advent of shale, things aren’t as black-and-white for the U.S. as they once were.

With regard to the US, I would argue the dependence on fossil fuels is bad regardless if the oil is imported or not. Being a fossil fuel "producer" is a misnomer because you aren't creating new fossil fuels. You are simply burning through your own home reserves faster.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#25

Post by paxys »

ams6110 wrote: post #18
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #14

The scale of this is astounding and wonderful: "China had about 99 percent of the 385,000 electric buses on the roads worldwide in 2017, accounting for 17 percent of the country’s entire fleet. Every five weeks, Chinese cities add 9,500 of the zero-emissions transporters—the equivalent of London’s entire working fleet, according Bloomberg New Energy Finance."

While electric buses are almost certainly an emissions win compared to the no doubt primitive and dirty Chinese diesel buses, I doubt it is it fair to call them zero-emission? China burns a lot of coal for electrical power.

Yup, but it is still beneficial because power generation can be gradually made cleaner without affecting the rest of the infrastructure.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#26

Post by bunfunton »

danans wrote: post #21

It's a strange shift in affairs that China appears to have the greatest incentives (urban pollution, petroleum imports) today to advance clean transportation and energy while the US has stalled or moved backward, at least the Federal level. Western European countries, for whom fossil fuels don't seem to be an identity politics issue like in the US, are also making more progress in electrifying their transportation an…

I believe the individual countries set their own gas prices (taxed highly). All countries buy their oil/gas on the market for roughly the same price

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#27

Post by danans »

bunfunton wrote: post #26
danans wrote: post #21

It's a strange shift in affairs that China appears to have the greatest incentives (urban pollution, petroleum imports) today to advance clean transportation and energy while the US has stalled or moved backward, at least the Federal level. Western European countries, for whom fossil fuels don't seem to be an identity politics issue like in the US, are also making more progress in electrifying their transportation an…

I believe the individual countries set their own gas prices (taxed highly). All countries buy their oil/gas on the market for roughly the same price

That doesn't change the incentives though - the taxes are there for a reason.

EDIT: what I mean is that removing the petrol taxes won't solve the set of environmental and political problems they face, but rather would likely make them worse.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#29

Post by tdfx »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #5

Is this a submarine PR ad for the Chinese government? Not to take away from the objective positivity of the actual facts, but it feels eerily cheerleady. Almost childish, if nothing else… I count at least five pointless “ha ha look who’s laughing now” and “China is leading the world” in this, and a surprising lack of counterbalance. Perhaps I’m just seeing things? But yes: great.

I think the general consensus is that, politics aside, China is leading the world in many things now. Certain people, even sometimes Americans, seem to experience some schadenfreude that the US is being displaced in so many categories.
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