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So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

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Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#51

Post by pdkl95 »

beobab wrote: post #34
space_fountain wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do have more and more people in the world. Things like NATing can help get around it to some extent, but at the end of the day there aren't enough addresses to give every human alive today even one IP address. That doesn't strike me as a problem that can be solved by buybacks.

Trouble is that NAT solved a huge chunk of the problem. The current setup is not quite painful enough for people to want to fix it. The good is the enemy of the great, as it were.

> not quite painful enough

NAT was (and is) destructive and painful that some of us gave up writing network software in the late-90s/early-00s. I personally abandoned several network-focused projects in the early 2000s.

The current status quo only seems "not quite painful enough" if you accept that most people cannot use true network software, limited to client-server architecture where party lines[1] communicate with each other only with the permission of central privileged imprimatur[2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_line_%28telephony%29

[2] https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/

Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#52

Post by benjohnson »

Beltiras wrote: post #50
EE84M3i wrote: post #38

IPv4 address utilization is incredibly low. For example, consider 44.0.0.0/8 - it's sitting around almost entirely unallocated. UCSD Caida uses it for their network telescope (pretending to use it for amateur radio) and won't give it back. Just look at how dark it is: https://benjojo.co.uk/internet-2018.png (from https://blog.benjojo.co.uk/post/scan-ping-the-internet-hilbe... ) Discussion on r/amateurradio - https://…

Apple has an /8 but Microsoft does not? How did that happen?

Why would you want to be a part of the inter-net? Microsoft has all of MSN!

Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#53

Post by alex_hitchins »

GranPC wrote: post #8
alex_hitchins wrote: post #5

Does anyone know the amount of IP space that's allocated but never used or even allocations that have no routes to? I know there is a market to lease IP4 blocks and there is a resale market. I just wondered how much is just being sat on.

This might be an interesting article for you. https://blog.benjojo.co.uk/post/scan-ping-the-internet-hilbe...

That link looks great. I've bookmarked it to read later when I can give it the attention it deserves. I find networking at this scale fascinating and something I'd like to refine my knowledge with and perhaps do some sort of CNNA style course.

Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#54

Post by noselasd »

cptskippy wrote: post #33
KJKingJ wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and no sign of IPv6 on mobile networks Not quite true - EE (so one of the 'big four' providers rather than a small MNVO) has IPv6 support. Right now, my phone has an IP address assigned out of EE's 2a01:4c8::/29 netblock and I can connect to IPv6 only websites. My phone isn't super modern either - a 2016 era OnePlus 3 running Android 8.0.

I thought LTE was IPv6 native? T-Mobile in the US has two APNs available, EPC and Fast, and Fast is IPv6 only.

no. just as with most things it just have the option to support either or both

Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#55

Post by adventured »

cm2187 wrote: post #9

Even in developed countries IPv6 is barely deployed (my UK ISP - BT - pretends that they rolled it out but half of the time my modem tells me IPv6 is not availabled until I force it to reconnect, and no sign of IPv6 on mobile networks). Was looking at whether it was more economical to buy a small address block vs rent it from a datacentre. A /24 address block seems to cost around $4,000 upfront but then you need to p…

> Even in developed countries IPv6 is barely deployed

For reference, the list of currently leading and trailing countries by IPv6 adoption (from Akamai's August 2017 numbers):

Belgium 46%, US 40%, India 36%, Greece 32%, Germany 25%, Switzerland 20%, Finland 20%, Brazil 19%, Canada 18%, Norway 16%, Japan 15%

Portugal 13%, UK 12%, France 12%, Australia 8%, New Zealand 8%, Sweden 8%, Netherlands 7%, Mexico 5%

Israel 3%, South Korea 2%, Ireland 1%, Denmark 1%, Russia 1%, Spain 0.7%, Italy 0.5%, China 0.3%, Colombia 0.1%

The way some of these nations are lagging is bizarre.

Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#56

Post by tialaramex »

pgeorgi wrote: post #14
nsbq71 wrote: post #4

>we still have around nine million recovered IPv4 addresses in our available pool. Under current policy and growth rates, we expect these to last a further two years. And by then they will have recovered even more. The end of IPv4 is a lie, and how bad IPv6 is and the lack of good transitioning systems doesn't help.

That's approximately a /17 worth of IPv4 addreses, recovered over multiple years going through all the low hanging fruit (eg the original /8 networks). 9 million addresses for 2 years is a burn rate of ~375k/month. Another 2 million newly obtained addresses in the next 2 years will last 6 more months. At some point IPv6 will become more economical.

It's already more economical, it's just not surfaced very well economically. People hide the price of IPv4.

One of the IPv6 ISPs did a talk about this, they realised that rather than hiding this cost they could surface it and then magically instead of "Try to persuade technical people to choose IPv6" the situation is "Make technical people explain to their finance department why they're spending the extra money" and what do you know, "Learn IPv6" is way more popular than "Argue with accountants".

Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#57

Post by isostatic »

jlg23 wrote: post #15
isostatic wrote: post #2

"It's important to keep in mind that while 185/8 is finished, we still have around nine million recovered IPv4 addresses in our available pool. Under current policy and growth rates, we expect these to last a further two years." They've really cracked down on IP allocation since the days of giving companies entire /8s, or even since 2012 "185/8 was allocated in just five and a half years...in comparison, the precedin…

> They've really cracked down on IP allocation since the days of giving companies entire /8s [...] You did not have to be a company, your estimates of how many of the IPs you request you'll plan to use right away, after one and after two years just had to be within some boundaries (ripe form #160, if memory serves me correctly).

I recently got 3x /25s delegated from various ISPs in various cities, they wanted IP allocation plans

Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#58

Post by adventured »

sp332 wrote: post #44
appdrag wrote: post #20

RIP ipv4 :p And ipv6 is still nearly nowhere...

Google says >30% of USA usage is over IPv6. https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-... Akamai says 40%. https://www.akamai.com/uk/en/about/our-thinking/state-of-the... But it shows a huge jump in May last year, not sure what that's about.

Most countries have a small number of dominant telecom providers. When they adopt IPv6, you'd normally see a very big jump in a short amount of time.

Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#59

Post by ozim »

beobab wrote: post #34
space_fountain wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do have more and more people in the world. Things like NATing can help get around it to some extent, but at the end of the day there aren't enough addresses to give every human alive today even one IP address. That doesn't strike me as a problem that can be solved by buybacks.

Trouble is that NAT solved a huge chunk of the problem. The current setup is not quite painful enough for people to want to fix it. The good is the enemy of the great, as it were.

Also I do not need to have directly accesible stuff on my home network. I can use dropbox or buy cheap VPS if I want to keep my data in sync.

One is security, NAT is nice for that a lot smaller attack surface. Second keeping your stuff always running at home is unreliable and annoying.

Would be nice if I would not have to pay for VPS but $5 a month cheapest linode is more than enough for my hobby projects.

Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#60

Post by sp332 »

adventured wrote: post #58
sp332 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google says >30% of USA usage is over IPv6. https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-... Akamai says 40%. https://www.akamai.com/uk/en/about/our-thinking/state-of-the... But it shows a huge jump in May last year, not sure what that's about.

Most countries have a small number of dominant telecom providers. When they adopt IPv6, you'd normally see a very big jump in a short amount of time.

Sure, but that doesn't explain why they show the USA jumping from 27.7% to 38.7% in one day (5/24 to 5/25) when Google's numbers don't show a similar rise.
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