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Oracle owns “JavaScript”, so Apple is taking down my app

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Re: Oracle owns “JavaScript”, so Apple is taking down my app

#141

Post by mathw »

ams6110 wrote: post #74
binarynate wrote: post #2

I knew that Microsoft had to call their ECMAScript implementation JScript, but it never dawned on me that Oracle is the current owner of the "JavaScript" trademark: http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2416017&caseSearchType=US_... Between this and Oracle's ongoing lawsuit against Google for their use of Java in Android, I have a pretty low opinion of Oracle.

I always assumed it was because that was Microsoft's "embrace, extend, extinguish" era and they didn't want to use the name "Java" but did want to imply that it was compatible. Also at the time, pretty sure that Sun still owned Java?

If I recall correctly, it was called JScript because it wasn't actually fully compatible and because it had extended stuff - there was a JScript host for Windows scripting at one point, and there was talk about using it for ASP instead of VBScript. I'm not sure if that was ever actually implemented. Also I suspect Microsoft wanted to have their own branding.

Visual J++ on the other hand was because Sun sued them over a Java implementation which wasn't actually compatible with Java, and misuse of the trademark, and all that kind of thing, so Microsoft weren't allowed to call it Java anymore. This ultimately led to the development of C#, so it was probably for the good in the long term, apart from some of the bits they copied from Java in what was presumably an attempt to make it more a direct alternative.

Re: Oracle owns “JavaScript”, so Apple is taking down my app

#142

Post by consp »

sebazzz wrote: post #82

I wonder what would happen if he actually asked Oracle permission to use the name. Would Oracle allow it? Would he be required to pay a fee?

> Would Oracle allow it?

Yes, but only after:

> Would he be required to pay a fee?

Yes, it's Oracle. It will be a hefty one.

Re: Oracle owns “JavaScript”, so Apple is taking down my app

#143

Post by hyperpallium »

mathw wrote: post #140
suyash wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one of the market leader in enterprise software and database for decades. Don't be just another hater.

And it's not going to stay that way through legal bludgeoning. Where's the technical innovation? Where's the work that's going to make working with an Oracle database package something less akin to being chased by a swarm of bees? Where's the developer tooling which doesn't make SQL Server Management Studio look like a paragon of user experience (which it very much isn't)? Where's the documentation for PeopleSoft whi…

Codd, at IBM, invented the relational database (though not SQL). And yet, Oracle got their rdb to market before IBM. They subsequently marketed it as a way to integrate heterogeneous systems - which IBM could not do (they had to champion their own machines). Amazing - stealing fire from the gods (as Microsoft later did...)

Unfortunately, while the community advantages of having a dominant interoperation mechanism are real - like having a common tongue - it rewarded the means of attaining dominance. A sales culture. A zero-sum game. It's not enough that I win, others must lose.

And here we are.

Re: Oracle owns “JavaScript”, so Apple is taking down my app

#144

Post by dxw92297 »

imacpro1 wrote: post #95
pronoiac wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's in the (unwieldy) name? Have you considered changing the name to, say, Snippet Editor?

This was done long time ago when we game the appstore ranking by adding all the keywords to the app name. I haven't touched the app since like many years.

So many years the App Store gives a warning it needs an update to run OK under current IOS. Not trying to defend Oracle or justify this move, but do you think the negative feedback might have influenced the issuing of the takedown? I see many other Javascript editors and Javascript-based tools on the App Store and this is the first I’ve read of a takedown due to this specific issue. Maybe you just became the lucky first case.

Re: Oracle owns “JavaScript”, so Apple is taking down my app

#145

Post by kitd »

matte_black wrote: post #55
giancarlostoro wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh and adding on to that... "the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil"

But the root of all evil is believing there is only one truth and that you are in possession of it.

Do you truly believe that?

Just asking ...

Re: Oracle owns “JavaScript”, so Apple is taking down my app

#146

Post by amichal »

mathw wrote: post #141
ams6110 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always assumed it was because that was Microsoft's "embrace, extend, extinguish" era and they didn't want to use the name "Java" but did want to imply that it was compatible. Also at the time, pretty sure that Sun still owned Java?

If I recall correctly, it was called JScript because it wasn't actually fully compatible and because it had extended stuff - there was a JScript host for Windows scripting at one point, and there was talk about using it for ASP instead of VBScript. I'm not sure if that was ever actually implemented. Also I suspect Microsoft wanted to have their own branding. Visual J++ on the other hand was because Sun sued them over…

Jscript asp was a real thing. “Run jscript on the client and the sever” was supposed to be a big time/labor saving. Ala nodejs

Re: Oracle owns “JavaScript”, so Apple is taking down my app

#147

Post by mschuetz »

gnulinux wrote: post #139
Someone1234 wrote: post #67

It is unfortunate that "ECMAScript" is simply a terrible name. I understand why the term is used, but that doesn't make it inherently good, easy to say, or memorable. Fortunately the ES shorthand is more workable (e.g. ES6, ES2017, etc).

I can't see what's wrong with ECMAScript. ['ek.ma] script. Javascript is just as long.

ECMAScript sounds like a disease and it's unpleasant to pronounce.

Re: Oracle owns “JavaScript”, so Apple is taking down my app

#148

Post by arkades »

coldacid wrote: post #47
cryptonector wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A test case might be needed. If Oracle were to sue a deep-pocketed competitor over the trademark, then we might find a court reaching the conclusion that the trademark has been diluted and the name is now generic. But if Oracle does no such thing, and sues only shallow-pocketed "nobodies", then the legal status of the mark will remain unclear. My guess is Oracle would only do the latter, and that they're doing it bec…

>Never attribute to malice what you can attribute to a corporate lawyer. Are corporate lawyers not the physical manifestation of malice itself?

There are no lawyers in this thread, huh?

My wife is a corporate lawyer, so ive seen a little bit of these shenanigans from her perspective. And it pretty much boils down to this: there are certain risks lawyers can take and keep their jobs, and risks they will lose their jobs over. Like everyone else, they do not enjoy unemployment.

Saying “this business idea is fine, go for it” and it succeeds? They get no credit. Saying “I don’t think this is legal,” ugh, lawyers are always too cautious, but its par for the course sonit doesn’t reflect badly on them. Saying “go for it” and get nailed in an enforcement action? Unemployed and unemployable.

Likewise, when it comes to protecting IP, as required by law. They can’t -not- do it: it’s their job, explicitly, to protect the IP. Deciding “we will not pursue the correct course of legal action to (legally) protect our clients rights to protect their branding” isn’t in their purview, that belongs to the execs (who Are the ones that make those decisions). Any lawyer that decided that on their own? They’d better hope it -never- has -any- consequences, because... unemployed and unemployable.

It’s easy to blame lawyers for protecting their clients rights, but all they do is navigate the system. They don’t make the system[1], and they don’t pull the trigger

[1] there is a meme that lawyers build the legal system, as opposed to, you know, legislators, lobbyists, special interest groups, etc. I find it poorly related to reality.

Re: Oracle owns “JavaScript”, so Apple is taking down my app

#149

Post by wiz21c »

raverbashing wrote: post #127
blasdel wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more accurately "take money" — don't anthropomorphize them: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5170246

Ethics is the difference.

Yup and the interpretation of law doesn't need to be ethical. Law and justice are quite different things.
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