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Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

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Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#681

Post by YetAnotherNick »

spenczar5 wrote: post #555
YetAnotherNick wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone could have bought this stock if they would have known the price. Yes, the decision to join amazon turned out to be great money wise, but still doesn't explain why the top talent works there.

Hm, I don't understand what purchasing stock has to do with it. If someone bought the stock then they would own it. But that's not what happens when a company grants you stock - it's a promise to deliver you shares later. If this hypothetical employee quit on April 10th, 2018, they would not get the 464 shares (== $668k) on April 16th, 2018. They also would probably not get a comparable offer if they quit to join Fac…

I am saying you could not anticipate which company's share will rise above the rest.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#682

Post by aquadrop »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #585
aquadrop wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More automation -> less jobs -> more pressure to keep working at the awful, but paying job you have. I think best solution is universal basic income, but that of course is far from being accepted in USA. But it gives power to people, it make them not being so afraid to lose a job, so employers have to act accordingly.

> I think best solution is universal basic income I have said before here that I cannot imagine universal basic income working in the USA unless American culture changes drastically to favour heavy state subsidy of arts, culture and community centers. In the Nordic countries where a substantial portion of many communities are on the dole, the state generously provides concerts and theatres and social facilities so th…

They won't be just not working, they also won't have to work, for life. That might cause change of behavior.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#683

Post by aquadrop »

isostatic wrote: post #439
aquadrop wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More automation -> less jobs -> more pressure to keep working at the awful, but paying job you have. I think best solution is universal basic income, but that of course is far from being accepted in USA. But it gives power to people, it make them not being so afraid to lose a job, so employers have to act accordingly.

Possibly, UBI or negative income tax (which is probably easier to administer) may be required, but it may not. In India, they still employ someone to sit on a chair in a lift pressing the button. Even in the western world we employ doormen. Of course while people vote against their best interests (the false belief that hard work guarantees success) I'm sure that those with the power will continue to exploit those wit…

UBI should be there to fight exactly that, those pointless jobs. It increases value of people's time, so even if there will be a doormen, they will be paid very good and that will be choice of the people.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#684

Post by techsupporter »

spenczar5 wrote: post #401
kajumix wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judging from some of the comments here, software engineers working in Amazon must either be stupid or irrational to continue working there, given the market for software engineers. Amazon is a highly successful company with significant anticipate growth still to come. All that success doesn't come without talent. So maybe not stupid, maybe just irrational? Tech companies in general, and Amazon in particular, are high…

At least one reason is that the stock has done so well. A typical software engineer hired 4 years ago is incredibly well compensated at Amazon because of this. Consider a mid-level software engineer hired 4 years ago, on April 16 2014, with a salary of $100k. A typical stock grant at hiring for a mid-level software engineer in 2014 might be $400k over 4 years, backloaded so most of it comes at the end; on April 16 20…

Are those numbers real? As in, does (did?) Amazon really do $400,000 in stock grants for routine (I don't mean that to sound harsh, I just mean "not as a super-exceptional process to land a world-famous developer") software engineer hires?

If they are, holy shit. I thought the meteoric rise in housing prices around here was almost entirely due to the influx of people compounded by this region's seeming inhospitable allergy to building housing stock at anywhere near a reasonable rate.

But, damn, if your table is even within 80% of reality, I am floored. No wonder it's virtually impossible to rent or buy anything for a "realistic" (for me, and I make a pretty good income, or so I thought) price anywhere between Edmonds and Auburn. The rest of us, even those employed in the technology industry, simply cannot compete with that kind of cash on the barrel.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#685

Post by chiefalchemist »

progval wrote: post #221
chiefalchemist wrote: post #158

Obviously, I wouldn't call this slavery. But in terms of the effect on the employees, it's __in some ways__ getting close. Do we have a word for this type of relationship between worker and company? There's something wrong when we (at least in the USA) are said to be approaching but workers (albeit in the UK) can't stop to pee. All this at the hands of the richest man in the world?

> Do we have a word for this type of relationship between worker and company? Exploitation of labour. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploitation_of_labour

Ok. But that's more or less a verb. How about a noun? Words matter. We need a word.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#686

Post by aswanson »

paxys wrote: post #650
rland wrote: post #424

Is this worth it? Is this worth having the ability to pick between 10,000 different toasters via internet and have them delivered to your doorstep in 2 days? Sometimes I look at society as a complete organ, with a hypothetical ability to make cohesive decisions for itself. And I think, it is making extremely self-destructive choices. All for the sake of satisfying the urge to buy more, at lower prices, with more conv…

What's your solution then? Are you implying that manual laborers had a better time at any point in history before Amazon existed?

I did manual labor up until I finished college. I never felt forced to piss in bottles to keep any of those jobs.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#687

Post by delecti »

jackgolding wrote: post #659
delecti wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but you can also opt-in to that. I told my manager I was dissatisfied and thinking of leaving, he suggested I talk to HR about the pivot program. They then put me on a PIP so I could accept the severance option. Also I had been on an actual PIP before and I'm pretty sure that option wasn't mentioned.

this is crazy to me, check out /r/consulting they view being on a PIP as a doomsday clock where the company will find any excuse to fire you in the next 6 months.

I can't speak universally, but I "passed" mine, and lasted another full year before leaving willingly. My manager seemed to very earnestly want me to pass, and implied that most people do.

All that said, I would advise that if you get put on a PIP, just take the severance right away. You're ineligible for a raise or additional stock grants in the cycle following the PIP.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#688

Post by babygoat »

progval wrote: post #206
babygoat wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that’s true, then charge us more and be a real human.

If you have Amazon Prime, you can choose to have a longer delay (ie. the same as non-Prime consumers) when selecting shipment options.

My choices will not improve the conditions of warehouse workers.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#689

Post by thegrimmest »

lovich wrote: post #653
thegrimmest wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I say "yes" without being down-voted? I'd like the government not to limit free association of moral agents. Two people should be free to work together under whatever arrangement they voluntarily enter into. All our current system of labour and union law has accomplished is the offshoring of suffering. We've not gotten rid of the existence of, nor our reliance on abhorrent working conditions. We've just moved the…

I understand that viewpoint,and even agree with it mostly on a person to person level, but if the government didn't have these laws why would it be any better. When people tried to negotiate with companies without the states involvement, the companies used violence to try and get their way. Corporations aren't moral agents and can't be treated as such

  the companies used violence to try and get their way
And that's exactly where we need the state, in order to protect us from violence. I'd just like there to be limits on the scope of its authority. Corporations are just groups of people.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#690

Post by thegrimmest »

kelnos wrote: post #656
thegrimmest wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I say "yes" without being down-voted? I'd like the government not to limit free association of moral agents. Two people should be free to work together under whatever arrangement they voluntarily enter into. All our current system of labour and union law has accomplished is the offshoring of suffering. We've not gotten rid of the existence of, nor our reliance on abhorrent working conditions. We've just moved the…

As I replied to the parent, the laundry list of items is a little odd, since, in the US at least, the only thing there that's protected by law are the workplace health and safety standards. And... I guess I must not be as optimistic as you are. If we didn't have things like OSHA, I do not expect that most workplaces would act in the best interests of their workers' health and safety. Look at countries where there are…

Minimum wage is certainly protected by law.

  Look at countries where there aren't OSHA-like laws and see how well they do there
That's exactly my point though isn't it? We still rely on goods produced in those places, we just don't have any visibility into the conditions they are produced in. We've just offshored the suffering, not alleviated it.
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