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Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

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Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#51

Post by zaroth »

atonse wrote: post #4
dpkonofa wrote: post #2

This will get canned on the appeal, guaranteed. The article is a bit misleading because they're not going after him because he's doing aftermarket repairs. They're going after him because he's claiming that the repaired devices are using genuine parts from Apple, which even have the Apple logo on them, yet they weren't purchased from Apple. This is my biggest complaint with the "Right to Repair" movement. They're con…

It's not that simple. Until literally 3 days ago I held exactly your same view "why don't they just become Apple authorized repair shops?" Well, apparently Apple actually restricts the repairs you can do. For example, if you have water damage, you aren't allowed to just fix the actual components (capacitors, etc) that blew, you have to replace the whole board, resulting in much higher costs and eWaste for customers.…

It would be like when the capacitor blew on my A/C condenser if I would be forced to replace the whole unit instead of the $10 part.

It’s important that people know if they are getting 3rd party or refurbished parts, but it’s equally important for people to have the right to use 3rd party and refurbished parts if they so choose — with the only restriction of having the necessary safety/compliance markings.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#52

Post by Johnny555 »

endemic wrote: post #22
throwahey wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would take anything Rossman says with a grain of salt, he clearly has a personal vendetta against Apple. Further, Apple products are almost entirely recyclable, up to and including the packaging. As long as they are properly disposed of, you wouldn't be producing additional waste. And you are assuming that "flash" and "sexy" serve a single, vapid purpose. The designs of their products are as compact and space effic…

>As long as they are properly disposed of, you wouldn't be producing additional waste. I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. You'd have to take into account the cost of sourcing raw materials for a replacement machine, right? I've heard anecdotes about how buying a used gas-burning car is actually less detrimental to the environment than buying a new EV; this strikes me as a similar situation.

buying a used gas-burning car is actually less detrimental to the environment than buying a new EV

I think that's only true if that gas burning car was going to be destroyed if you didn't buy it. Someone will buy it, maybe someone that's replacing their older less efficient car. And by buying the more expensive EV, your demand is helping to increase volume and lower costs of EV's.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#53

Post by geezerjay »

comboy wrote: post #47
mattsfrey wrote: post #30

"Apple does not ‘own’ the product after they have sold it" I think this is the crux of the issue. The guy was importing refurbished parts with the logos covered even. They weren't counterfeits. How does a manufacturer have the right to sue for copyright infringement when it's just end users reselling authentic parts? The owner even states he in no way markets them as OEM parts. Frankly I think it's pretty obvious app…

I don't think they want to squeeze every cent. I think they just care about the brand. They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them. Even if you buy some used iphone. If somebody buys some used iphone and it acts weird or the build quality seems imperfect because some parts were replaced, then this person may spread opinion that iphones suck. I'd guess that's their reasoning.…

> They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them.

It's quite obvious that, to put it mildly, that's wishful thinking inspired by a heavily rose-tainted view of Apple.

Meanwhile, Apple is known for their extreme price gouging complemented with extreme actions to stop even their very own customers from even repairing their broken products, let alone upgrade them to a usable state.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#54

Post by woobar »

hhw wrote: post #10
dpkonofa wrote: post #2

This will get canned on the appeal, guaranteed. The article is a bit misleading because they're not going after him because he's doing aftermarket repairs. They're going after him because he's claiming that the repaired devices are using genuine parts from Apple, which even have the Apple logo on them, yet they weren't purchased from Apple. This is my biggest complaint with the "Right to Repair" movement. They're con…

But the article states quite clearly that he is NOT claiming to use genuine parts. “PCKompaniet has never removed the coverup of the Apple logo on the screens that have been imported and has no interest in doing so. PCKompaniet does not pretend or market itself as Apple authorized and does not give any indication that the repair comes with an Apple warranty.” Unless you have evidence of the contrary, your argument is…

> But the article states quite clearly that he is NOT claiming to use genuine parts.

Not trying to pick side in this argument, but a quick search on webarchive[1] shows that this page (https://www.pckompaniet.no/reparasjon-iphone/) used to have this blurb:

'Kun orginale deler blir brukt her hos oss!'

That google translates as 'Only original parts are used here!'

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckomp...

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#55

Post by PhasmaFelis »

urda wrote: post #20
Someone1234 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? I wouldn't be throwing that name around as a talking point at all in this discussion. So you're discounting someone's opinion because they were forced to use unauthorized repair manuals since the manufacturer stopped producing repair manuals for devices customers have paid for? That's the whole crux of the…

> So you're discounting someone's opinion because they were forced to use unauthorized repair manuals because the manufacturer stopped producing repair manuals for devices customers have paid for? Yes, because it's a legal case we are discussing here and that's called "breaking the law". Failing to understand that means I cannot discuss this article with you at all since a really important common understanding has be…

If his facts are correct, it's irrelevant that he also broke the law. Facts are facts.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#56

Post by bluGill »

hhw wrote: post #10
dpkonofa wrote: post #2

This will get canned on the appeal, guaranteed. The article is a bit misleading because they're not going after him because he's doing aftermarket repairs. They're going after him because he's claiming that the repaired devices are using genuine parts from Apple, which even have the Apple logo on them, yet they weren't purchased from Apple. This is my biggest complaint with the "Right to Repair" movement. They're con…

But the article states quite clearly that he is NOT claiming to use genuine parts. “PCKompaniet has never removed the coverup of the Apple logo on the screens that have been imported and has no interest in doing so. PCKompaniet does not pretend or market itself as Apple authorized and does not give any indication that the repair comes with an Apple warranty.” Unless you have evidence of the contrary, your argument is…

The problem for Apple is if you sell badly repaired phone, the buyer has no way of knowing it was badly repaired and will blame Apple for any failures.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#57

Post by intopieces »

mattsfrey wrote: post #30

"Apple does not ‘own’ the product after they have sold it" I think this is the crux of the issue. The guy was importing refurbished parts with the logos covered even. They weren't counterfeits. How does a manufacturer have the right to sue for copyright infringement when it's just end users reselling authentic parts? The owner even states he in no way markets them as OEM parts. Frankly I think it's pretty obvious app…

>How does a manufacturer have the right to sue for copyright infringement when it's just end users reselling authentic parts?

I'm not sure this is an accurate representation of Apple's case. First, it seems like they are suing for trademark infringement, not for copyright infringement. Second, the repair shop owner is by no stretch of the imagination the end user of this product. Wikipedia gives this definition of end user:

"In product development, an end user (sometimes end-user)[a] is a person who ultimately uses or is intended to ultimately use a product.[1][2][3] The end user stands in contrast to users who support or maintain the product,[4] such as sysops, system administrators, database administrators,[5] information technology experts, software professionals and computer technicians."

As for "no way markets them as OEM parts," this is not a very consumer-focussed answer. I think a reasonable step that this guy should have to take is to explicitly state, "I am not an authorized Apple repair technician and these parts are not guaranteed to be genuine Apple parts. They do not bear an Apple warranty and are not eligible for support by Authorized Apple Technicians."

Otherwise, from Apple's perspective, this repair shop owner is just taking advantage of Apple's reputation for quality and using it to make cut-rate repairs.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#58

Post by zaroth »

bambax wrote: post #7
dpkonofa wrote: post #2

This will get canned on the appeal, guaranteed. The article is a bit misleading because they're not going after him because he's doing aftermarket repairs. They're going after him because he's claiming that the repaired devices are using genuine parts from Apple, which even have the Apple logo on them, yet they weren't purchased from Apple. This is my biggest complaint with the "Right to Repair" movement. They're con…

> the valid complaint of users not being legally allowed to repair their own devices. Apple has never been against that and isn't fighting that. Hmm, what? Apple is actively fighting that by making devices incredibly difficult to tear appart, not selling replacement parts, and, yes, suing every mom-and-pop repair shop.

The “difficult to tear apart” thing I would give incredible leeway to. It’s very hard to demand a device is physically constructed a certain way without unintentionally harming innovation.

Besides, people have differing opinions on what constitutes “ difficult to tear apart”. I’ve replaced batteries on all my iPhones and while it’s a delicate procedure it’s not particularly difficult, takes just a few minutes, and I’ve never damaged a phone in the process. I remember how much vitriol there was against Apple for not having hot swappable batteries, but I’m sure glad they went that route, and that they were able to lead the market in that choice.

But for the rest of it, they should definitely have to provide parts, manuals, and attacking the independent repair shops is wrong unless the shop is actually misleading their customers.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#59

Post by inops »

comboy wrote: post #47
mattsfrey wrote: post #30

"Apple does not ‘own’ the product after they have sold it" I think this is the crux of the issue. The guy was importing refurbished parts with the logos covered even. They weren't counterfeits. How does a manufacturer have the right to sue for copyright infringement when it's just end users reselling authentic parts? The owner even states he in no way markets them as OEM parts. Frankly I think it's pretty obvious app…

I don't think they want to squeeze every cent. I think they just care about the brand. They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them. Even if you buy some used iphone. If somebody buys some used iphone and it acts weird or the build quality seems imperfect because some parts were replaced, then this person may spread opinion that iphones suck. I'd guess that's their reasoning.…

Possibly, but there's an obvious planned obsolescence angle here for Apple too. Perhaps people wouldn't so readily buy new iPhones if they could replace their old phone's battery, screen, buttons, etc for a more reasonable price from a "non-authorised" repairer. Perhaps they wouldn't get a new one like clockwork every 1-3 years.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#60

Post by etatoby »

ivoras wrote: post #44

After watching things like this (Louis Rossmann), https://youtu.be/FeUBdMU2qA0 , if I ever buy an Apple product I'll basically treat it as unrepairable.

I watch Louis Rossman too. There's something about his straightforward and self-made-man attitude that strongly resonates with me. Plus it's usually very informative.
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