Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#21

Post by urda » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:11 PM UTC

nightcracker wrote: post #15

urda wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? I wouldn't be throwing that name around as a talking point at all in this discussion. The reason why Apple doesn't want any Joe-schmoe just yanking and replacing caps and other components is simple: quality control. I can barely count on two hands people I would be comfortable working on the innards of a PC,…

> Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? Are you seriously trying to discredit a man for doing exactly what he's fighting for? It's like trying to discredit a politician that's pushing for the abolition of jaywalking by saying that he jay walks himself. No shit - that's the whole point.

I'll repost the same thing here, since apparently this is confusing to some HN users this morning:

> So you're discounting someone's opinion because they were forced to use unauthorized repair manuals because the manufacturer stopped producing repair manuals for devices customers have paid for?

Yes, because it's a legal case we are discussing here and that's called "breaking the law". Failing to understand that means I cannot discuss this article with you at all since a really important common understanding has been missed on your part.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#22

Post by endemic » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:12 PM UTC

throwahey wrote: post #14

atonse wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple. Until literally 3 days ago I held exactly your same view "why don't they just become Apple authorized repair shops?" Well, apparently Apple actually restricts the repairs you can do. For example, if you have water damage, you aren't allowed to just fix the actual components (capacitors, etc) that blew, you have to replace the whole board, resulting in much higher costs and eWaste for customers.…

I would take anything Rossman says with a grain of salt, he clearly has a personal vendetta against Apple. Further, Apple products are almost entirely recyclable, up to and including the packaging. As long as they are properly disposed of, you wouldn't be producing additional waste. And you are assuming that "flash" and "sexy" serve a single, vapid purpose. The designs of their products are as compact and space effic…

>As long as they are properly disposed of, you wouldn't be producing additional waste.

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. You'd have to take into account the cost of sourcing raw materials for a replacement machine, right? I've heard anecdotes about how buying a used gas-burning car is actually less detrimental to the environment than buying a new EV; this strikes me as a similar situation.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#23

Post by digi_owl » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:12 PM UTC

amluto wrote: post #17

atonse wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple. Until literally 3 days ago I held exactly your same view "why don't they just become Apple authorized repair shops?" Well, apparently Apple actually restricts the repairs you can do. For example, if you have water damage, you aren't allowed to just fix the actual components (capacitors, etc) that blew, you have to replace the whole board, resulting in much higher costs and eWaste for customers.…

I have another not-very-green issue: my iPhone lightning port is wearing out. Apple will not repair it in their own shops. At least they don’t seem to try to prevent third parties from doing it. This is especially surprising given the unusual design of the Lightning port. Most ports (e.g. all USB variants) put the parts that are likely to wear out in the cable. Lightning has them in the jack, which is why the cable i…

Actually the mini-USB put the parts that were likely to wear in the plug...

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#24

Post by ryguytilidie » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

opencl wrote: post #12

dpkonofa wrote: post #2

This will get canned on the appeal, guaranteed. The article is a bit misleading because they're not going after him because he's doing aftermarket repairs. They're going after him because he's claiming that the repaired devices are using genuine parts from Apple, which even have the Apple logo on them, yet they weren't purchased from Apple. This is my biggest complaint with the "Right to Repair" movement. They're con…

Where do you see any indication that this man was claiming to use genuine Apple components? I see nothing of the sort on his website[1]. The article specifically says that he made no claims of being authorized by Apple or using genuine Apple components and the court agreed with him. There was an Apple logo, on an internal component, which was covered up , because (at least according to the seller) they actually are A…

I feel like I see this on the internet more and more lately. Paragraph one starts with some shoddy, made up evidence where they mock some idea and then you look for the start of paragraph 2 to figure out what they're really getting themselves upset about:

"This is my biggest complaint with the "Right to Repair" movement."

So yeah, have a problem with some group, reorganize information to make that group look bad and pretend like this thing you made up is a great illustration of the grudge you had against some people.

But my question is, why?

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#25

Post by smallnamespace » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

urda wrote: post #8

atonse wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple. Until literally 3 days ago I held exactly your same view "why don't they just become Apple authorized repair shops?" Well, apparently Apple actually restricts the repairs you can do. For example, if you have water damage, you aren't allowed to just fix the actual components (capacitors, etc) that blew, you have to replace the whole board, resulting in much higher costs and eWaste for customers.…

Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? I wouldn't be throwing that name around as a talking point at all in this discussion. The reason why Apple doesn't want any Joe-schmoe just yanking and replacing caps and other components is simple: quality control. I can barely count on two hands people I would be comfortable working on the innards of a PC,…

> The reason why Apple doesn't want any Joe-schmoe just yanking and replacing caps and other components is simple: quality control

Right, and the entire discussion is that Apple's right to quality control has overreached to the point that it is now impinging upon the common sense right of someone to be able try to fix something that they own when it breaks.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#26

Post by mikeash » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

digi_owl wrote: post #23

amluto wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have another not-very-green issue: my iPhone lightning port is wearing out. Apple will not repair it in their own shops. At least they don’t seem to try to prevent third parties from doing it. This is especially surprising given the unusual design of the Lightning port. Most ports (e.g. all USB variants) put the parts that are likely to wear out in the cable. Lightning has them in the jack, which is why the cable i…

Actually the mini-USB put the parts that were likely to wear in the plug...

That’s why mini USB is now almost extinct, replaced with micro USB (and now Type C?) which doesn’t make that mistake.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#27

Post by ksk » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

I worry they're going to come after us programmers next. Only "authorized" programmers will get the access code required to change anything. Microsoft, Apple, Dell, etc will control the access codes. "Programming is hard, and these untrained self-taught programmers can mess up your machine, they might install malware, or they might be hackers, or they might overclock your CPU and damage it, or they might use the system for terrorism. Really, they should only be allowed to access the machine if they were appropriately trained by us."

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#28

Post by urda » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:16 PM UTC

ksk wrote: post #16

urda wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? I wouldn't be throwing that name around as a talking point at all in this discussion. The reason why Apple doesn't want any Joe-schmoe just yanking and replacing caps and other components is simple: quality control. I can barely count on two hands people I would be comfortable working on the innards of a PC,…

>The reason why Apple doesn't want any Joe-schmoe just yanking and replacing caps and other components is simple: quality control. I can barely count on two hands people I would be comfortable working on the innards of a PC, let alone my phone and even then let alone desoldering and soldering new components onboard. And yet people are perfectly OK with a greasy mechanic fixing their metal cage hurtling down the freew…

> And yet people are perfectly OK with a greasy mechanic fixing their metal cage hurtling down the freeway at 65 miles per hour. Your attempt to demean skilled repair workers is rather telling of your own bias.

Woah I didn't know you could read my mind! For a matter of fact, I'm also very picky on who works or touches my car just for your information.

Drop the strawman it's unbecoming.

Second, there's an entire industry and certification to auto mechanics much like a trained repairman would be for phones. Third, since when is a "Joe-schmoe" a skilled repair worker? I fully do not expect the common citizen to even know how to do a basic soldier, let alone replace parts on a packed PCB. I didn't mention anything about skilled repair workers, nor is that demeaning to point out the abilities to repair small electronic devices like phones is not just a "walk in the park".

Drop the attacks and focus on the article, this is HN not reddit.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#29

Post by smallnamespace » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:16 PM UTC

urda wrote: post #20

Someone1234 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? I wouldn't be throwing that name around as a talking point at all in this discussion. So you're discounting someone's opinion because they were forced to use unauthorized repair manuals since the manufacturer stopped producing repair manuals for devices customers have paid for? That's the whole crux of the…

> So you're discounting someone's opinion because they were forced to use unauthorized repair manuals because the manufacturer stopped producing repair manuals for devices customers have paid for? Yes, because it's a legal case we are discussing here and that's called "breaking the law". Failing to understand that means I cannot discuss this article with you at all since a really important common understanding has be…

> that's called "breaking the law"

Right, which is why people are advocating getting the law changed, because they believe the practical outcome of law as it current exists is not just (nor economically efficient, for that matter).

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#30

Post by mattsfrey » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:18 PM UTC

"Apple does not ‘own’ the product after they have sold it"

I think this is the crux of the issue. The guy was importing refurbished parts with the logos covered even. They weren't counterfeits. How does a manufacturer have the right to sue for copyright infringement when it's just end users reselling authentic parts? The owner even states he in no way markets them as OEM parts.

Frankly I think it's pretty obvious apple is just trying to squeeze every cent out of these phones and it's a really bad hat to wear.