Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works • Hacker News Board

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#121

Post by icantgoogle » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 7:57 PM UTC

tzahola wrote: post #67

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #61

Zuckerburg is in the unenviable position of having to defend the entire ad-tech industry. If he describes in granular detail how user profiling and ad serving works on Facebook, then Facebook is going to take the hit on practices that are basically industry standards. If he obfuscates, and focuses on FB controls then he seems like a liar. If he explained how ad-tech works across the internet then it would look like w…

Good. The whole ad-tech "industry" should be burned to the ground; the sooner the better.

The internet will be very different if the whole ad tech industry disappears. It will be driven largely by subscription, but I believe that is the model that Apple is encouraging.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#122

Post by eurticket » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 9:26 PM UTC

gringoDan wrote: post #34

justinzollars wrote: post #4

I think the questions were also horrible. Watching two days of testimony it seemed only Congresswoman Dingell from Michigan had any grasp of how tracking technology works. My big takeaway is that we need more engineers in congress.

One of my biggest issues with the current political system is that - with few exceptions - only lawyers go into politics. This means that you have people who have never taken Econ 101 setting fiscal policy, who don't understand technology trying to regulate tech companies, etc. I'm not sure what the solution here is, but I think we're asking for trouble when our elected representatives lack a basic comprehension of t…

> I'm not sure what the solution here is

The solution is obvious, stop tracking and building profiles on internet users who don't agree with FB terms or are not actively accessing the FB site.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#123

Post by silviumatei » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

Aunche wrote: post #70

common_ wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't just basic cookie tracking. They have an actual profile on you, without your consent, with the people who have you in their address book and even potentially your purchasing habits, from the data they purchase from data brokers like Datalogix. They maintain this profile on you separately from other users, and they make immediate use of it if you create an account. That's why it's called a shadow profile.

Is there any real evidence of "shadow profiles" or are people just speculating due to confirmation bias? If you give millions of mutual friend recommendations there's bound to be a few that hit.

I have on my phone Facebook app and Facebook Lite, on Lite I have a fake account that I intended to use to like other things (see beyond my bubble) short story -never used account. I receive push notification from Lite app to connect to new friends. People suggested are from my real account friend list and between the 2 accounts we don't have mutual accounts. I've visited my parents and suggestion to be friend with them pop up.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#124

Post by RhysU » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 12:44 AM UTC

inlined wrote: post #33

mfoy_ wrote: post #12

I think the biggest thing is the HUGE disconnect with what people think Facebook is doing, and what Facebook is actually doing. I think the whole point of this is to raise awareness about of the scope of Facebook's data collection-- It's unfathomably enormous. If more average people had a better understanding of what Facebook was tracking, they'd be outraged. Zuckerberg's goal in this was to keep the wool pulled over…

And what's worse is that privacy controls explicitly don't control ad targeting. Years ago I had a long term relationship end. We hid our relationship status and only ended the status a year later. Immediately after changing a status marked "only me" in privacy settings I got bombarded with dating ads. I complained that this was a huge privacy violation and they said "we didn't share your relationship status with the…

If it was only for you, why tell FB at all?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#125

Post by daveFNbuck » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 1:09 AM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #113

daveFNbuck wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also feel like the use of "admit" in the headline is disingenuous. Yet you seem to be saying that Zuckerberg is trying to hide his business model to protect it from legislators. Doesn't that make the word "admit" appropriate? What other word would you use for something someone doesn't want to say during a hearing?

Admit implies wrongdoing. I'm not. I think it can be perfectly fair to want to be guarded about your secret sauce if that's what you believe it to be.

Admit doesn't imply wrongdoing, except insofar as hiding the truth is wrongdoing. The phrase "admit you like him" is in common enough use to have 101,000 results in a Google search, similar to "admit you were wrong" or "admit you did it". Having a crush isn't wrongdoing.

If admit is the wrong word to use here, what do you think the right word should be?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#126

Post by bogomipz » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 1:26 AM UTC

bobwaycott wrote: post #117

bogomipz wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can point to three articles in three major daily news outlets(NY Times, Washington Post and Bloomberg) in the last 48 hours that question the sincerity and accuracy of his congressional testimony. There's plenty more but these are off the top of my head.

That doesn’t reflect the court of public opinion (at least not yet). That’s merely a measure of journalist opinion at 3 outlets.

>"That’s merely a measure of journalist opinion at 3 outlets."

No as per my actual comment - those are but three off the top of my head. The same sentiments have been echoed in many many more outlets since Wednesday.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#127

Post by pwinnski » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 3:09 PM UTC

boobsbr wrote: post #97

pwinnski wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So-called "shadow profiles" are built for people who are not even Facebook users. I do not have a Facebook account, and yet my friends and family members have been prompted to tag photos of me with my name. I did not sign up for a free service. I am not a Facebook user, I'm not "having my fun." And yet Facebook has collected enough of a profile on me to recognize my face in photos and know who my friends and family a…

Is it a crime to hire a PI to tail someone and log their every move? Online tracking is basically the same thing.

Depending on the state, I believe it can be. Many states have "stalking" laws preventing just the sort of behavior Facebook engages in as part of their business plan.

In most (or all?) states, PIs are licensed and also have limitations on what they're allowed to do. There is currently no license for Facebook, nor any limits that they recognize.