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Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#61

Post by AndrewKemendo »

Zuckerburg is in the unenviable position of having to defend the entire ad-tech industry.

If he describes in granular detail how user profiling and ad serving works on Facebook, then Facebook is going to take the hit on practices that are basically industry standards. If he obfuscates, and focuses on FB controls then he seems like a liar.

If he explained how ad-tech works across the internet then it would look like whataboutism and him invoking the bandwagon fallacy.

At the end of the day it seems like someone/some company is eventually going to take the fall for the whole ad-tech industry and cause major reform - is Facebook the one who's going to take the arrow?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#62

Post by ameister14 »

fixermark wrote: post #14

""" Zuckerberg reluctantly acknowledged that Facebook gathers information on people who aren't signed up for Facebook for what he said were "security purposes." """ That's a pretty disingenuous way to phrase Zuckerberg's response to a question of whether Facebook uses cookie tracking for logged-out users. Which of course it does, and it's of course used for security purposes; one has to be able to unify sessions from…

That's not what the question was. The man asking the question wasn't technically sophisticated enough to ask about using cookies, and if he were, he would not have asked that question anyway.

The question was, does Facebook collect data on non-users?

What that means is, if I have not signed up for facebook, are you tracking my behavior anyway through the like button and other methods?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#63

Post by [deleted] »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #52
inlined wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that employees are told they can no longer use the word "shadow profile" to describe them, I suspect he knew what they meant.

> Given that employees are told they can no longer use the word "shadow profile" What's the source of this information?

[deleted]

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#64

Post by shmerl »

fixermark wrote: post #53
shmerl wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do care, that's why I don't use FB. Problem in using it is the network effect itself multiplied by the untrustworthy, closed and centralized foundation. I.e. you don't just harm yourself by using it, you are harming others by proliferating its use, because by using it, you are encouraging others to use it too.

That's if you're already approaching it from the point of view that it's a bad thing. I believe that question is unsettled.

It's pretty much settled that exploiting lack of privacy is a bad thing. Potential of such practice misuse was clearly demonstrated in the recent history.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#66

Post by ameister14 »

fixermark wrote: post #51
wavesounds wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zuckerberg is the one being disingenuous. By acknowledging cookie tracking or scraper tracking, he answers the question that indeed FB tracks offline usage, but only mentions the innocuous cases and fails to acknowledge the Shadow Profiles[1] they clearly have 1. https://www.dailydot.com/news/facebook-shadow-profiles-priva...

He actually mentions both in the original quote (if Bloomberg was sourcing to the section of the hearing I assume they're sourcing from).

He acknowledged that they made shadow profiles and collected information not necessary for security from people who did not possess facebook accounts?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#67

Post by tzahola »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #61

Zuckerburg is in the unenviable position of having to defend the entire ad-tech industry. If he describes in granular detail how user profiling and ad serving works on Facebook, then Facebook is going to take the hit on practices that are basically industry standards. If he obfuscates, and focuses on FB controls then he seems like a liar. If he explained how ad-tech works across the internet then it would look like w…

Good. The whole ad-tech "industry" should be burned to the ground; the sooner the better.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#68

Post by sfifs »

mfoy_ wrote: post #12

I think the biggest thing is the HUGE disconnect with what people think Facebook is doing, and what Facebook is actually doing. I think the whole point of this is to raise awareness about of the scope of Facebook's data collection-- It's unfathomably enormous. If more average people had a better understanding of what Facebook was tracking, they'd be outraged. Zuckerberg's goal in this was to keep the wool pulled over…

Actually "average people" in my experience very likely wildly over estimate how much information Facebook has about them. The default assumption I've seen non-technical people make is "they know everything". They understand at an intuitive level that when a company provides services for free and is worth so much, it probably uses a lot of their data. When these "average people" are business managers, this leads them to expect miracles out of Facebook ad targeting:-)

Technical people on the other hand who get into details and try to work out what and how FB is collecting data consistently under estimate FB and so get outraged.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#69

Post by [deleted] »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #52
inlined wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that employees are told they can no longer use the word "shadow profile" to describe them, I suspect he knew what they meant.

> Given that employees are told they can no longer use the word "shadow profile" What's the source of this information?

[deleted]

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#70

Post by Aunche »

common_ wrote: post #37
fixermark wrote: post #14

""" Zuckerberg reluctantly acknowledged that Facebook gathers information on people who aren't signed up for Facebook for what he said were "security purposes." """ That's a pretty disingenuous way to phrase Zuckerberg's response to a question of whether Facebook uses cookie tracking for logged-out users. Which of course it does, and it's of course used for security purposes; one has to be able to unify sessions from…

This isn't just basic cookie tracking. They have an actual profile on you, without your consent, with the people who have you in their address book and even potentially your purchasing habits, from the data they purchase from data brokers like Datalogix. They maintain this profile on you separately from other users, and they make immediate use of it if you create an account. That's why it's called a shadow profile.

Is there any real evidence of "shadow profiles" or are people just speculating due to confirmation bias? If you give millions of mutual friend recommendations there's bound to be a few that hit.
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