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iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-repaired screens

theguardian.com

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Re: iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-repaired screens

#71

Post by saagarjha »

pfortuny wrote: post #62
saagarjha wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not upgrading the software For goodness sake no! Blocking software updates is a terrible thing to do, because most people don't want to install them anyways. You're basically putting people in an already bad situation in a worse situation. > Nagging him at least lets him use the phone and keeps him informed. It only takes the user using the sketchy Touch ID sensor once for their fingerprint to be sent out to malici…

I get what you are trying to convey. I disagree but there is no problem in that. However: where does Apple state that their products may stop working if repaired with different components? (Honest question, I have tried to find it).

This was that best I could find from a few minutes of searching.

> Service Exclusions and Diagnostic Fee. Apple may charge you a diagnostic fee (including shipping charges) as described in the Country Variation table, below (“Diagnostic Fee”), if Apple inspects your product and determines that (i) your product does not require service, (ii) your product has failed due to or has incompatibilities with software or data residing or recorded on your product (iii) service is required due to the failure of parts that are neither supplied by Apple nor Apple-branded, (iii) additional labor or parts are required that were not specified in the original estimated charges and you do not agree to authorize service based on Apple’s revised estimated charges, or (iv) service cannot be performed because the serial number has been altered, defaced or removed or the product has failed due to accident, abuse, liquid spill or submersion, neglect, misuse (including faulty installation, repair, or maintenance by anyone other than Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider), unauthorized modification, extreme environment (including extreme temperature or humidity), extreme physical or electrical stress or interference, fluctuation or surges of electrical power, lightning, static electricity, fire, acts of God or other external causes (“Service Exclusions”). Apple will return your product to you without servicing it and may charge you the Diagnostic Fee.

This is from Apple's Repair Terms and Conditions: https://www.apple.com/legal/sales-support/terms/repair/gener.... It doesn't say that the product will stop working, but it does say that Apple isn't responsible for fixing it if it goes wrong. I'm not sure if that could be extended to them not having to support your third party component in software, though.

Re: iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-repaired screens

#72

Post by cheeze »

no_wizard wrote: post #51

All the more reason to support the right to repair https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/3/8/17097256/cali...

Oh man, someone advocating for right to repair but linking an AMP article on HN? Surely this will lead to some fun discussion

Re: iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-repaired screens

#73

Post by rlanday »

opencl wrote: post #69

This seems like a potential violation of the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act, which prohibits the refusal of warranty service for using third-party parts without proving that the third-party parts were the source of the malfunction. Assuming Apple will refuse to repair these under warranty, which they almost certainly will, this is effectively requiring the purchase of screens from Apple to receive warranty service. On th…

Given that iPhones with OEM displays are apparently still working fine...isn't it pretty obvious that the third-party parts are the source of the malfunction?

Re: iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-repaired screens

#74

Post by Rjevski »

axoltl wrote: post #8
astockwell wrote: post #4

Apple, I get it. I get why you do it. But seriously, this retroactive punishing of prior 3rd-party purchases is asinine. I had purchased multiple lightning cables from Anker (a very reputable brand), and had one of the iOS 11.x updates basically render them useless. Apple's product support is not fast enough, nor pervasive enough (to say nothing of cheap enough), to justify this behavior. Edited for clarity

It was not done intentionally. They simply don't QA their releases on repaired phones (because why would they?). The touchscreens in question highly likely use an older touchscreen controller from a previous iPhone. These controllers don't support certain commands that evidently they are now using. As far as the lightning connectors go, that WAS done intentionally. The third party lightning connectors generally don't…

> don't implement a very specific charging protocol designed to prevent metal migration between the pins and the pads on the connector

Any sources for this ? I'd like to learn more.

Re: iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-repaired screens

#75

Post by JustSomeNobody »

apple314 wrote: post #61

You know, this would be far less of an issue if Apple offered some way of downgrading iOS...

Similar issue with the 6S happened when ios 11 was released. In that case Apple DID allow people to downgrade (back to 10.3.3 in fact!). I don't have a third party screen, but I did take advantage of that and tried ios 11 for a while. Eventually went back to 10.3.3 before that window closed (they fixed the issue with 3rd party screens on 6S).

Re: iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-repaired screens

#76

Post by pfortuny »

saagarjha wrote: post #71
pfortuny wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you are trying to convey. I disagree but there is no problem in that. However: where does Apple state that their products may stop working if repaired with different components? (Honest question, I have tried to find it).

This was that best I could find from a few minutes of searching. > Service Exclusions and Diagnostic Fee. Apple may charge you a diagnostic fee (including shipping charges) as described in the Country Variation table, below (“Diagnostic Fee”), if Apple inspects your product and determines that (i) your product does not require service, (ii) your product has failed due to or has incompatibilities with software or data…

Thanks.

You see it is really not very noticeable and the writing says nothing about hardware stopping working.

I guess we have both learnt from this exchange.

Thanks a lot.

Re: iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-repaired screens

#77

Post by Nicksil »

opencl wrote: post #69

This seems like a potential violation of the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act, which prohibits the refusal of warranty service for using third-party parts without proving that the third-party parts were the source of the malfunction. Assuming Apple will refuse to repair these under warranty, which they almost certainly will, this is effectively requiring the purchase of screens from Apple to receive warranty service. On th…

Non-AMP link: https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/8/17097256/california-right-...

Re: iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-repaired screens

#78

Post by nmstoker »

saagarjha wrote: post #47
wvenable wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this analogy has gone off course a bit. But I do think a manufacturer providing automatic irreversible updates has an obligation to ensure, as best as possible, that the device continues to work with that update. If it worked yesterday, it should work tomorrow, period. It would be perfectly reasonable to not force updates and allow users to continue with the current version forever if that keeps them running.…

How would the manufacturer know you were using a non-OEM part, though? As far as they're concerned their parts support so-and-so protocol, so they should be able to use it.

This isn't a black and white issue. Some degree of compromise is needed as neither side is 100% right. What seems reasonable is a degree of resiliency be built in - so if the protocol worked on a subset of features, you don't brick it as you expand to new ones, you merely degrade.

It's not a perfect analogy, but the rules on radio interference with devices spring to mind: you need to cope with some interference and you need to not emit it. This results in a more stable ecosystem, even though you could sensibly argue that if one side is stuck to absolutely, the need for the other wouldn't exist.

Re: iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-repaired screens

#79

Post by stefan_ »

axoltl wrote: post #8
astockwell wrote: post #4

Apple, I get it. I get why you do it. But seriously, this retroactive punishing of prior 3rd-party purchases is asinine. I had purchased multiple lightning cables from Anker (a very reputable brand), and had one of the iOS 11.x updates basically render them useless. Apple's product support is not fast enough, nor pervasive enough (to say nothing of cheap enough), to justify this behavior. Edited for clarity

It was not done intentionally. They simply don't QA their releases on repaired phones (because why would they?). The touchscreens in question highly likely use an older touchscreen controller from a previous iPhone. These controllers don't support certain commands that evidently they are now using. As far as the lightning connectors go, that WAS done intentionally. The third party lightning connectors generally don't…

It's not like repair shops are doing this to cut corners and costs or cheap out. It's simply impossible to source the exact replacement chips for recent iPhones, Apple doesn't sell them, in fact they probably ask their chip manufacturers for exclusivity - and at the scale of Apple orders, manufacturers are happy to do whatever.

Re: iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-repaired screens

#80

Post by pietroglyph »

axoltl wrote: post #8
astockwell wrote: post #4

Apple, I get it. I get why you do it. But seriously, this retroactive punishing of prior 3rd-party purchases is asinine. I had purchased multiple lightning cables from Anker (a very reputable brand), and had one of the iOS 11.x updates basically render them useless. Apple's product support is not fast enough, nor pervasive enough (to say nothing of cheap enough), to justify this behavior. Edited for clarity

It was not done intentionally. They simply don't QA their releases on repaired phones (because why would they?). The touchscreens in question highly likely use an older touchscreen controller from a previous iPhone. These controllers don't support certain commands that evidently they are now using. As far as the lightning connectors go, that WAS done intentionally. The third party lightning connectors generally don't…

The problem here is that Apple leaves third parties in the dark. A reasonable, open, spec and stance on more complex repairs would shift the responsibility to the repair company.
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