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Facebook urged to make GDPR its “baseline standard” globally

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Re: Facebook urged to make GDPR its “baseline standard” globally

#101
I'm curious, would anyone surprised by FB actions mind describing how you expected FB to act with what specific data, and how FB actions deviated from that expectation?

I was under the impression that most people fully expect (even if they disdain) free web services vacuuming any and all user data for advertising profit.

Is this data selling/ad targeting a surprise, or rather is it just finally enough to make you leave or get upset even though you knew that was the business model all along?

Also, are you quitting other web services that operate ad based, data driven revenue models like Google, Reddit, Twitter, etc?

This is a genuine question not a sarcastic comment.

Re: Facebook urged to make GDPR its “baseline standard” globally

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people don’t care about fire safety either (until their house is burning down) which is why we have regulations, building codes, mandatory sprinklers in offices, etc. I am starting to look at privacy like it should be treated as a public safety concern, since it’s invisible to people until it’s not.

can social media kill you though? I mean all this talk of regulating social networks is under the assumption that it's something you need to have. I would argue that safe shelter is a true human need, but posting cat gifs or pictures of drunken escapades or political musings does not seem equally comparable and thus I do not see how regulation does anything other than hamper competition.

“It could kill” is a pretty high bar for accepting that something needs to be regulated. We accept regulations on other data collection / storage activities, like financial data and health data. We also have licensure for occupations where public safety or wellbeing is a concern but lives are not necessarily on the line.

Re: Facebook urged to make GDPR its “baseline standard” globally

#103
post #52
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EU residents, not citizens. It's an important distinction. Sorry if this is obvious. I haven't been following the details of this. Does that mean there is no protection for EU citizens while they are outside the EU?

Roughly: def GDPR_applies(company, person): if in_EU(person): return True if in_EU(company): return True return False There are various conditions, limitations, and exceptions that make the above not fully accurate, but its a good first approximation. You can read the actual text of the territorial scope rule here [1]. Edit: slightly less rough, but still quite rough: def GDPR_applies(company, person): if in_EU(compa…

This is a good answer. The question has been raised and answered (by tzs and others) on HN so often recently. It‘s interesting to watch how the answers get streamlined to the essential information over time.

Re: Facebook urged to make GDPR its “baseline standard” globally

#104

Is anyone talking about the harmful effects on startup companies that may want to create new social platforms to compete against the incumbent players? All the talk about regulating facebook, twitter, etc are actually great for those companies because they can afford compliance. But it raises the bar of entry so high that new companies wouldn't be able to compete since with limited resources they wouldn't be able to…

The GDPR makes some things easier for start ups. Users now have a right to their personal data in a "commonly used" digital file. Now the start up can have a "Import your Facebook data" feature.

Currently a provacy conscious start up is competing with those who aren't, making it harder. But with this law, you won't have as many shady companies like Facebook.

Storing less private data makes you less liable to get hacked and get bad PR.

Re: Facebook urged to make GDPR its “baseline standard” globally

#105
post #101

I'm curious, would anyone surprised by FB actions mind describing how you expected FB to act with what specific data, and how FB actions deviated from that expectation? I was under the impression that most people fully expect (even if they disdain) free web services vacuuming any and all user data for advertising profit. Is this data selling/ad targeting a surprise, or rather is it just finally enough to make you lea…

It is completely obvious that many people did not understand the extents to which facebook accumulates data. I don't think anyone in this thread even has actual knowledge to the full extent.

It is even harder for most people to understand the implications of even small amounts of data collection.

Re: Facebook urged to make GDPR its “baseline standard” globally

#106

Is anyone talking about the harmful effects on startup companies that may want to create new social platforms to compete against the incumbent players? All the talk about regulating facebook, twitter, etc are actually great for those companies because they can afford compliance. But it raises the bar of entry so high that new companies wouldn't be able to compete since with limited resources they wouldn't be able to…

I don't think GDPR compliance is as onerous as you seem to think it is, but even if it were, would it matter? We don't give special provisions to start ups writing safety critical code or developing new health care technology, why would this be any different?

There's nothing inherently wrong with a high bar to entry if that bar exists for a very good reason. If it were hard to break into this space due to regulation (I don't believe it is or will be) then yes, competition will be less, but the alternative is worse.

Re: Facebook urged to make GDPR its “baseline standard” globally

#107
post #69

They have no way to tell who is/isn't a citizen so just change your location to Frankfurt and voila, you're protected by GDPR!

GDPR applies to residents (of the EU), not citizens.

And I presume Facebook has so much data on you that a simple trick like changing your profile won't matter.

Re: Facebook urged to make GDPR its “baseline standard” globally

#108

There's been so many articles about Facebook and the recent privacy catastrophe that I'm finding it hard to keep up. Does anybody actually know what their response will be to the GDPR? Are the privacy benefits from the GDPR going to be exclusive to EU citizens? This seems problematic. Whatever happens, Facebook has irreparably damaged my trust in their handling of user data and I think many on here would agree. My wi…

GDPR requires you to handle personally identifiable information in a way that makes sense to the users and that is auditable. Facebook overall does that far better than anyone.

The situation with Cambridge Analytica was that they let users export the information about their friends, information that users had access to; not allowing that export at all would probably be met with legally-binding criticism. What the API allowed at the time was to conveniently do that through a third-party application that users were free to use. The main use-case that was discussed then was to empower services like Riot, to encourage competition — something that, surprisingly, Facebook was very supportive of at the time.

There was no expectation of fiduciary duties at the time, so whether they should treat users as grown-up and obey to their request to export their social graph, or whether they had a duty to prevent that from happening was not clear at the time. It has since became clear that people were not reading the permissions that they were granting and more applications were abusing them than trying to build an alternative to Facebook. With the benefit of being the central platform, Facebook was the first to notice and started cutting accesses, to the great anger of many third-party services that grew dependent of the feature. Some services who needed the social graph for legitimate reasons well understood by the users (e.g. Tinder) have kept their now-not-publicly available access.

As much as people want to blame the only site that they can see in the process and the one that appears the most powerful, namely Facebook, the company acted with far more awareness than the law would, even with something as progressive as GDPR in action.

Facebook not only has been very effective at showing me and letting me edit the data they have about me in https://www.facebook.com/ads/preferences/ but they are the first service that let me see whether my data has been sold by data brokers to (often unsuspecting) brands. Check the “With my personal info” section. Do you see companies you have never heard about here?

Don’t be misinformed and attack Facebook for selling your data — they did not. They are the ones revealing to you that those company purchased it from elsewhere and allowing you to know who to pursue, who to ask to remove your info or who to ask how they got it.

The amount of blaming the nurse for your fever on those issues is getting really concerning.

Re: Facebook urged to make GDPR its “baseline standard” globally

#109
post #62

Is anyone talking about the harmful effects on startup companies that may want to create new social platforms to compete against the incumbent players? All the talk about regulating facebook, twitter, etc are actually great for those companies because they can afford compliance. But it raises the bar of entry so high that new companies wouldn't be able to compete since with limited resources they wouldn't be able to…

Read about what GDPR actually entails. Following it should be simple for a new player.

You're right! All the stuff about right to be forgotten, right to view, right to make corrections, and so on should be very straightforward and easy for any company of any size interested in being honest. Especially for new players, who don't have ugly legacy systems to wrangle.

Yet... I've read through GDPR. All ninety-nine articles are chock full of "reasonable measures" and similar verbiage. Unless you can afford a compliance specialist - which isn't automatic for a new player - it's intimidating as all hell. What are reasonable security measures, as seen from by a careerist somewhere in Brussels? The text is silent on what exactly that means.

It's possible that respecting users and having good intentions may not be enough...

Re: Facebook urged to make GDPR its “baseline standard” globally

#110
post #52
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EU residents, not citizens. It's an important distinction. Sorry if this is obvious. I haven't been following the details of this. Does that mean there is no protection for EU citizens while they are outside the EU?

Roughly: def GDPR_applies(company, person): if in_EU(person): return True if in_EU(company): return True return False There are various conditions, limitations, and exceptions that make the above not fully accurate, but its a good first approximation. You can read the actual text of the territorial scope rule here [1]. Edit: slightly less rough, but still quite rough: def GDPR_applies(company, person): if in_EU(compa…

That psuedocode is inaccurate - if a company (including its parent's subsidiaries) is not in the EU and does not provide services to companies which operate in the EU, then the GDPR has no inherent jurisdiction.
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