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Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

nytimes.com

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Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#241

Post by bonesss »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #219
kevindong wrote: post #208

I never understood why anyone young would start smoking. Throughout my K-12 education, I was told every single year that smoking is bad and all that jazz (i.e. shown pictures of what a smoker's lungs look like, shown documentaries on the negative effects, etc.). It definitely isn't for lack of trying of my school district's part, and yet high single digit percentages of my peers in high school were using some form of…

"I never understood why anyone young would start smoking" To look cool. No, seriously, that's one of the main reasons. To look cool in front of one's peers. You might not have cared about such things, or feel pressure to engage in them. If so, I'm happy for you. But that doesn't mean others don't.

Superficial habits are also an easy substitute for personality, something teens are eagerly trying to develop. Everything from hair dying to wearing bow ties are 'normal', vices carry all kinds of extra social signaling.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#242

Post by narag »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #218
vkou wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's never smoked, but has stood next to people who have, I would guess it does quite the opposite. I imagine most people who don't smoke think this.

The first times you do it, it feels pretty good. Really good, in fact. However, like any drug, you develop a tolerance and a dependence. Before long, you require it to feel normal, not to feel good.

That's not my experience and that's not the experience of any smoker I've known.

I quit smoking years ago and of course I strongly discourage people from smoking, it's very bad for the health, etc.

But spreading disinformation is not the way to fight it.

Edit: BTW, the first times you do it are the worst. While you get used to the smoke.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#243

Post by foreigner »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #196
foreigner wrote: post #122

Why not just set the minimum birthdate to buy nicotine products at 2000, so only 18 year olds can buy it this year, and future generations cannot? Seems like that would sidestep the whole "removing people's rights" argument and gradually just phase it out completely? Has any jurisdiction done that?

Sure I mean a minimum age to buy cigarettes definitely kept teens off smoking for the past 50 years Sorry for the sarcasm, but, like, what?

I'm not suggesting a minimum age, I'm suggesting a minimum birthdate. So the minimum age will advance automatically - this year it will be 18, next year 19, etc... Put another way, people born on or before 2000 will continue to be able to buy nicotine, but people born after 2000 will never be able to buy it. Over time the percentage of the population which can buy nicotine will gradually dwindle to zero, and there will be no more excuses for stores to stock it.

AFAIK that approach hasn't been tried anywhere. I think I heard a while back it was discussed in Russia but never actually happened? I don't see any good argument for not doing this.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#244

Post by lstyls »

Scaevolus wrote: post #175
jacobolus wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cigarettes cause high rates of lung cancer, killing tons of people. It makes sense to heavily discourage teenagers from using them. As far as I am aware (I am not an expert about or user of any of these products) the risks from vaping are much less severe. Is the concern just that the activity is nominally unlawful? Or that it will be a “gateway drug” (is there any evidence of that)? Or that it is a waste of students…

It's less severe, but nicotine alone is carcinogenic.

Citation? NICE, for one, says there is no known cancer risk from nicotine alone: https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ph45/chapter/3-Consideratio...

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#245

Post by tinus_hn »

ams6110 wrote: post #182
jacobolus wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cigarettes cause high rates of lung cancer, killing tons of people. It makes sense to heavily discourage teenagers from using them. As far as I am aware (I am not an expert about or user of any of these products) the risks from vaping are much less severe. Is the concern just that the activity is nominally unlawful? Or that it will be a “gateway drug” (is there any evidence of that)? Or that it is a waste of students…

Yeah I don't endorse vaping especially for young kids but it's better than smoking, and that was even allowed at my high school (in specific places). We've eliminated all the really worrying stuff but people like to worry about kids so now we're down to sugar and vaping. Of the two I'd bet sugar is a lot worse, long term. Though since vape juice is unregulated and kids probably buy the cheapest they can find, I'd won…

Vaping is not better than smoking, it’s less bad.

If you think getting addicted to inhaling chemicals is not harmful you are deluding yourself.

Just like there are no ‘safe’ cigarettes, there is no ‘safe’ vaping. Even inhaling nicotine itself is harmful.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#246

Post by refurb »

Houshalter wrote: post #217
refurb wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Hats off to the NHS. Is vaping harmless? Unlikely. Based on current understanding is it likely much less harmful than smoking tobacco? Yes.

Why is this even controversial? Vaping removes almost all of the known dangers from smoking. We know smoke inhalation itself is incredibly bad for health. It was never about the nicotine. Wood smoke and general pollution is highly associated with cancer and bad health and no better than tobacco smoke. There's some evidence humans have been evolving resistance to it since the invention of fire. Suggesting it's actuall…

It's controversial because smoking has become the 20th century temperance movement, at least in the US.

Some people are so offended by the idea of smoking that even doing something much less harmful, like vaping, is enough to cause them to panic for the future of our children.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#247

Post by jgalt212 »

jessriedel wrote: post #138
neaden wrote: post #2

I think it is very important for everyone to keep in mind that vaping is probably safer than smoking. But it might not be, we don't know for sure. And it is certainly worse than not consuming any tobacco product. So trying to encourage active smokers to switch to vaping is probably beneficial, but increasing overall tobacco consumption rates is bad.

> And it is certainly worse than not consuming any tobacco product. I don't think we know this. routine use of Nicotine alone is one of the world's most effective and safest appetite suppressants, with robust evidence of sustained weightless. It's quite possible a small decrease in the obesity rate means its net effect is positive.

probably the #1 or #2 reason girls in my HS smoked (back in the dizay)

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#248

Post by Eric_WVGG »

foreigner wrote: post #243
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure I mean a minimum age to buy cigarettes definitely kept teens off smoking for the past 50 years Sorry for the sarcasm, but, like, what?

I'm not suggesting a minimum age, I'm suggesting a minimum birthdate. So the minimum age will advance automatically - this year it will be 18, next year 19, etc... Put another way, people born on or before 2000 will continue to be able to buy nicotine, but people born after 2000 will never be able to buy it. Over time the percentage of the population which can buy nicotine will gradually dwindle to zero, and there wi…

Thank you for the clarification. Amusing idea.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#249

Post by droidist2 »

forgottenpass wrote: post #72
truculation wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean to imply that religious faith offers a way out of addiction or that (for example) the Book of Job is really really interesting?

I think it's sarcasm pointing out how detached from practicality some of the comments here seem and/or how terrible teen mass-intervention programs are in general. I don't remember the finer details of anti-drug propaganda from school that well anymore, but I do remember my anger at how patronizing, insulting and obviously ineffective most of it was. And how it often used the exact same manipulation tactics that DARE…

Yes, it was sarcasm. Either way it's interesting I got flagged for that.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#250

Post by mistermann »

hapless wrote: post #91
LyndsySimon wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have all sorts of metals, liquids, flavoring compounds, wicks, etc Metal content is negligible unless you dry hit. No one likes that so it's pretty much a self-limiting problem. Flavoring compounds, though... there are liquids out there that contain diacetyl (a "buttery" flavoring). It's relatively common in foods, but is known specifically to cause issues when heated and inhaled. ETA: I just saw that this is m…

The nichrome heating elements in vapes have been proven to leach considerable amounts of manganese and chromium into your vape fluid and vapor. https://www.jhsph.edu/news/news-releases/2017/study-toxic-me...

It's almost always easy to spot deliberate cherry picking and dishonest statistics in order to come to an alarmist conclusion.

"For their study, the researchers selected five leading brands of so-called first generation e-cigarettes, which are referred to as cig-a-likes because they resemble traditional cigarettes. (Newer ones look like small cassette recorders with a mouthpiece. In the newer devices the liquid is added from a dispenser prior to use. In contrast, the liquid in first generation e-cigs is stored in the cartridge together with the coil, which increases the liquid’s exposure to the coil even in the absence of heating.) The five brands are sold across the United States in big-box retail stores, convenience stores and gas stations, as well as online. Three of the five brands constituted 71 percent of total market share in 2015. If a brand came in more than one flavor, the researchers chose one flavor for consistency’s sake."

Almost no one uses this piece of junk cig-a-likes. Try and find a person using one on the street, compared to people using proper high powered mods, which their "market share" statistic most certainly does not include.

"This study was funded by the Institute for Global Tobacco Control, Johns Hopkins School of Public Health."

Shocking.

I have yet to read a negative study that does not contain obvious blatant lies.

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