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Tesla crash victim had complained about auto-pilot in same location

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Re: Tesla crash victim had complained about auto-pilot in same location

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your numbers about error percentiles don't make sense. Ideally, you'd want an outcome measure like fatalities per million miles, accidents per 100k miles, not "% error" which is vague. Furthermore, look at the actual data we have right now. SDC makers actually put out data in California about their "disengagement rate" which is how many time the human drivers took over from the software. Waymo have steadily increased…

Then let's add some perspective. You must be referring this[0] paper. If the average person puts on 1,000 miles per month[1], then that means they'd have to deal with disengagement (a mishap) at least twice a year, which is not acceptable for fully autonomous driving. I'm going to define a "fully autonomous vehicle" as "a vehicle which should not ever require me to sit in the front seat and control it under any conce…

> I don't even want the probability of encountering a mishap to be once per lifetime,

This doesn't seem reasonable - Waymo's report doesn't dive in depth enough about each disengagement to warrant this sort of extreme reliability.

If "2 disengagements" per year, were at most fenderbenders - something I'd wager humans do way more than twice per year - that would be a very different story than if those 2 disengagements were life threatening. Sure you'd wake up from your nap, but you wouldn't be dead, and at most you'd have to exchange insurance information.

Re: Tesla crash victim had complained about auto-pilot in same location

#202
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/31/apples-steve-wozniak-doesnt-...

"Man you have got to be ready — it makes mistakes, it loses track of the lane lines. You have to be on your toes all the time," says Wozniak. "All Tesla did is say, 'It is beta so we are not responsible. It doesn't necessarily work, so you have to be in control.'

"Well you that is kinda a cheap way out of it."

Re: Tesla crash victim had complained about auto-pilot in same location

#203

The path into the barrier looks a lot like a lane. https://imgur.com/a/iMY1x And the old striping is lightly visible as well.

looks like that would trick a human driver under certain lighting conditions. between Seattle and Bellevue a stretch of freeway looks just like that and trips me over every time

Re: Tesla crash victim had complained about auto-pilot in same location

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't he sue Top Gear and lost over a bit Jeremy Clarkson did? EDIT: Yes he did and lost[0]. Jeremy Clarkson did another bit in The Grand Tour about the new Tesla and it was quite British[1]. [0] http://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/12536/remember-when-top-g... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DiGQRaaHvg

This is great. Thanks for posting.

The video is funny. Re the first argument Top Gear wrote a script with the Telsa breaking down and faked the thing so I can see why Musk was annoyed. They lost the court case because Top Gear argued Tesla couldn't show they'd hurt sales.

Re: Tesla crash victim had complained about auto-pilot in same location

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've ridden a lot of Amtrak and it's never been on a single track line. Are you sure that's an actual problem? Long delays, sure, but is that the reason? Seems to usually be train equipment failure.

Having ridden a lot of Amtrak almost makes it less likely that you'd have experienced the single track problem, since quality rail experiences in the US are pretty concentrated such that someone who has good train experiences probably lives/works in an area where that is the rule. On the East coast, pretty good service arguably extends as far south as Richmond, but past that sitting on the tracks is very common. And…

I mostly rode the train from SC to Boston and back (Southern Crescent) ... it's dual track all of the way. Also DC to Chicago, southern route, dual track all of the way.

Re: Tesla crash victim had complained about auto-pilot in same location

#206
post #9

It'll be interesting to see if anything comes of the issue with the already-collapsed crash barrier and what CalTrans says about it. That sort of thing is there for a reason, and to be left in a crushed state for any period of time is bad.

In Texas, I've seen crushed barriers remain collapsed for weeks on end. Either that or they are just hit again right after being replaced. Which tells me, it's a poorly designed road and causes confusion for drivers. Which in fact may be what this Tesla crash turns out to be.

But unfortunately the real world is full of poorly designed, under-maintained roads driven on by drivers who are looking at their phones or have mechanical issues without warning. If the self-driving cars can't handle it, then they shouldn't be on the roads. The roads will never be perfect.

Re: Tesla crash victim had complained about auto-pilot in same location

#207
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe Tesla told him that the issue was fixed and he can use it again. Why do people trust auto pilot at such high speeds? It is still new technology. Let the autopilot park your car, if it makes a mistake the only bad thing that can happen is just a few scratches and in 5-10 years use autopilot on low traffic streets and then go to the highway. You can't expect new technology to be safe.

If it’s not safe you shouldn’t be selling it.

Motor vehicles in general are not completely safe. It's a question of where you draw the line.

Re: Tesla crash victim had complained about auto-pilot in same location

#208
post #2

If he had seen this issue multiple times before why would he keep using autopilot in that area? That seems like a very odd decision.

There is no evidence autopilot was engaged in this crash yet.

Update: There is now https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/30/17182824/tesla-model-x-cr...

Re: Tesla crash victim had complained about auto-pilot in same location

#209
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Id be willing to take a 1k bet that computers won’t approach sentience in our lifetime. Don’t believe the AI hype train, there hasn’t been a real breakthrough. Just more accurate versions of the same (dumb) classifiers.

Why do you think that humans are not just even more accurate versions of the same types of classifiers?

Because we integrate, learn, plan, abstract, create, have way more senses, complex memory, societal and cultural embeddings, and a whole host of things that make us human. A text box on hacker news is not the place for such a reply. Go take some cognitive science, neuroscience, anthropology, sociology, psychology, and philosophy classes and you’ll see why. “AI” as we know it is a joke, particularly as media has hyped it.

The original guys (McCarthy, minskey, etc) at least understand the gigantic complexity of the undertaking in so far as we understand how the mind works at all, and they never reduced things purely to classifiers. That’s like 0.1% of the job. The real researchers take philosophy of mind seriously — technologists want a quick and cheap solution that cannot exist.

Re: Tesla crash victim had complained about auto-pilot in same location

#210

The path into the barrier looks a lot like a lane. https://imgur.com/a/iMY1x And the old striping is lightly visible as well.

looks like that would trick a human driver under certain lighting conditions. between Seattle and Bellevue a stretch of freeway looks just like that and trips me over every time

Either the same place or a nearby one (same pair of highways) did trick a human driver two years ago: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/...

"[...] when it entered and traveled in an unmarked gore area, rather than the intended high-occupancy-vehicle (HOV) lane, and collided with a crash attenuator. The 990-foot-long gore, with an unmarked inside area, separates the left exit HOV lane for State Route 85 from the US-101 HOV lane."

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