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Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

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Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#241

Post by jboynyc »

antoineMoPa wrote: post #240
randomsearch wrote: post #237

If you haven't already installed Signal on your phone, please go and do so. To have alternatives to Facebook/W/I we need to build up network effects. Pretty easy to convince tech people to do this, and it would be a good start for getting Signal in as a replacement.

Is signal decentralized? If it is decentralized, how is the network effect built? (Is everyone isolated on their server with a subset of all signal users, or is there a way to communicate with someone using another signal sever?).

It is not decentralized. All Signal users can communicate with all others.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#242

Post by dwighttk »

akuji1993 wrote: post #129
ponderatul wrote: post #66

I think we are talking differently about this permission concept. Legally yes, they had permission. But the fact that they used those dark ux patterns to request that permission should not be forgotten. Even though legally they are in the right, we as users should make this fact irrelevant and just abandon the platform. Let them be right, let them win the argument but lose the battle with the general public.

I'm still completely convinced that this whole scandal will not damage Facebook a bit, in the long term. Yeah, the stock is going to be a bit lower for some weeks, some people will leave, but the largest part of the Facebook users has not even realised the scandal in full scale. They're not going anywhere, they're going to continue as is, since there really is not alternative for Facebook right now and tbh they would…

put your money where your mouth is and buy that stock

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#243

Post by noxToken »

randomsearch wrote: post #236

Facebook should seriously consider offering premium accounts with no advertising and extra benefits. Extra privacy guarantees. Invitation only, gradually roll it out.

I don't understand the context of your post.

"Pay us money, and we won't allow companies to manipulate you via advertising."

Or

"Pay us money, and we won't use every tool at our disposal to suck every bit of possible data out of your life"

Both of them are gross, and no user should be subject to either of those dilemmas. I'm not saying that every product should be free of use without any cost. Advertising is absolutely necessary to keep certain products and services free. Some companies take it too far though.

Put it this way: eating beef requires that a cow is slaughtered. Should we go for the painless, instantaneous kill, or since it's going to die anyway, should we vivisect it?

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#244

Post by soziawa »

randomsearch wrote: post #237

If you haven't already installed Signal on your phone, please go and do so. To have alternatives to Facebook/W/I we need to build up network effects. Pretty easy to convince tech people to do this, and it would be a good start for getting Signal in as a replacement.

While Signal is nice it's rather worrying that it's free. I'd rather use a paid alternative like Threema.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#245

Post by stult »

akuji1993 wrote: post #129
ponderatul wrote: post #66

I think we are talking differently about this permission concept. Legally yes, they had permission. But the fact that they used those dark ux patterns to request that permission should not be forgotten. Even though legally they are in the right, we as users should make this fact irrelevant and just abandon the platform. Let them be right, let them win the argument but lose the battle with the general public.

I'm still completely convinced that this whole scandal will not damage Facebook a bit, in the long term. Yeah, the stock is going to be a bit lower for some weeks, some people will leave, but the largest part of the Facebook users has not even realised the scandal in full scale. They're not going anywhere, they're going to continue as is, since there really is not alternative for Facebook right now and tbh they would…

I don't know that it's that simple. Facebook survives because of network effects. Which means it is vulnerable to mass exodus, sort of like a run on the bank. So maybe no one single scandal will bring it down, but a slow, steady trickle of controversy will chip away at the user base until it hits a critical point and spirals to nothing. The continuous publication of evidence about its negative mental health effects, the scandals about political manipulation, and the terrible privacy practices seem to be driving away many of the trend setters, which means the apathetic masses will eventually follow.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#246

Post by srslack »

antoineMoPa wrote: post #240
randomsearch wrote: post #237

If you haven't already installed Signal on your phone, please go and do so. To have alternatives to Facebook/W/I we need to build up network effects. Pretty easy to convince tech people to do this, and it would be a good start for getting Signal in as a replacement.

Is signal decentralized? If it is decentralized, how is the network effect built? (Is everyone isolated on their server with a subset of all signal users, or is there a way to communicate with someone using another signal sever?).

It can be federated (and was in the past) but Moxie has complained about federation holding development back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software)#Federation

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#247

Post by EADGBE »

bogomipz wrote: post #227
shanghaiaway wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every company's destiny is decided by revenue and profit. Facebook will be fine as long as the advertising money keeps coming in. Will it? I don't see why not. Companies don't care about user privacy.

>"Will it? I don't see why not. Companies don't care about user privacy." Except they do care about their associations and brand management: 'At least three companies -- Sonos, Commerzbank (CRZBF) and Mozilla -- have pulled advertisements off Facebook after a data scandal engulfed the social network. Others are asking tough questions. Unilever, which owns brands including Dove, Lipton, and Ben & Jerry's, issued a for…

...Dove ... issued a forceful warning to the platforms in February, saying they had become a "swamp" of fake news, racism, sexism and extremism.

We'll, they're contributing to this [1].

As much as they "hate" the platform, they still love the ad targeting it provides. They all do. Which is probably one of the only reasons these brands even bother.

They just can't help themselves when it comes to being able to push $X towards women only, in their 30's, who have small impressionable children at home, are affluent enough to buy expensive soap, etc, etc, etc.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/08/business/dove-ad-racist.h...

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#248

Post by mdellavo »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #228
realusername wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatsapp still sends (for now) way less data than Facebook and also has much better security. I wonder how long it will continue.

WhatsApp sends the most important one, your social graph aka contact list and how often and when you interact with whom. I also assume the content of the messages you send and receive can be read and monitored.

They could obscure cell numbers too - they chose not to

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#249

Post by mdellavo »

orb_yt wrote: post #16
drawkbox wrote: post #9

Much of this blame goes on Android and some on iOS/Apple. The phone/call permissions, especially for Android, were needed for any app that wants to suspend when a call comes in and for analytics/social libs. I always hated that about Android especially because even harmless games made it look like you were taking contacts and monitoring calls. Of course this would be abused and it is all over the place. Unfortunately…

> The phone/call permissions, especially for Android, were needed for any app that wants to suspend when a call comes in. No they weren't

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread about Android's roll in all this. Clearly - they need better, more fine grained permissions - but they have been working towards that goal for years now.

There also seems a lot of pro-Apple bias that seems unwarranted/

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#250

Post by Retric »

r3bl wrote: post #206
baalimago wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many look to Twitter as their new social media platform, that together with IG (which is owned by facebook sure, but it's "harder" to be political there, which it all comes down to in the end) and Snapchat as a messenger. Google plus failed, so why wouldn't Facebook eventually do so also? The youth don't have Facebook, it's mostly the 20-40 year olds who do. This 20-40 generation follow the mainstream media news and…

Google+ had all the necessary requirements to be successful, but it failed at creating the network effect. Facebook does have the network effect, so killing its network effect will be much more difficult.

The reverse network effect is also real. People who leave for whatever reason reduce the value of the service to others. Services quickly goes from the first place to keep in contact to yet another place to post event announcements and not much else.
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