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Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

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Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#81

Post by pixl97 »

Sir_Substance wrote: post #29
Malarkey73 wrote: post #14

I know Google is profiling me and harvesting my data. But it's not using me to harvest my friends information. I know Google is targeting ads at me - and they maybe AB tested. But those ads are from real companies or organisations - they aren't fake bots or astroturf groups algorithmically designed to tell me what I want to hear. I'm sceptically watchful of Google, I feel I have a social contract with them where they…

>I know Google is profiling me and harvesting my data. But it's not using me to harvest my friends information. But is it not though? Because it analyzes any emails I send to your gmail account, and any SMS messages I send to your android phone. Google will argue about data vs metadata, but really it's all just data, and it's as much about me as it is you. I don't know if Google pioneered shadow profiling, but they c…

If you have decent network VLAN his equipment on its own subnet.

It is sad we have to secure our networks from equipment straight from the vendor.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#82

Post by pnloyd »

Ivoirians wrote: post #70

Disclaimer: I work for Google and these views are only my opinion, etc. From my perspective, Google's goals are aligned with improving the world by offering information services. Search, Gmail, Maps, Translate, basically all of the Other Bets, etc.--it's easy to imagine that the people behind them are more concerned with impact on the world than on generating profit or consolidating Google's power. To me, Facebook ha…

A lot of people seem to default to a really cynical view of tech businesses. I share this same same sentiment with the parent comment where I feel like Google "has my back" and I know for certain there products do make my life easier. This guilty until proven innocent attitude that many people hold is getting kinda old.

Giving them your data is the price you pay for their service. If this doesn't seem fair to you then find an alternative. Enough of this scary business.

Maybe with the Equifax and Cambridge analytica incidents the broader public will start thinking about privacy more seriously. And in turn companies may start pushing privacy assurances as selling points. (Just reaching for a bit of optimism in these unnerving circumstances, I don't like it either)

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#83

Post by [deleted] »

ultimoo wrote: post #68
drawkbox wrote: post #11

Your ISP tracking your every move is scarier than all of them after the ISP privacy bill passed. At least Facebook and Google give you something for it and you can route around them if you desire. No routing around ISPs unless you use a VPN but even then they are blocking those. Broadband/cable/telcos capture everything you do and can now sell that information and do[1]. That bill was the pre-cursor to removing net n…

Sorry to sidetrack here -- but any good recommendations for paid VPNs?

[deleted]

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#84

Post by q3k »

ultimoo wrote: post #68
drawkbox wrote: post #11

Your ISP tracking your every move is scarier than all of them after the ISP privacy bill passed. At least Facebook and Google give you something for it and you can route around them if you desire. No routing around ISPs unless you use a VPN but even then they are blocking those. Broadband/cable/telcos capture everything you do and can now sell that information and do[1]. That bill was the pre-cursor to removing net n…

Sorry to sidetrack here -- but any good recommendations for paid VPNs?

Why would you trust a VPN provider more than your ISP?

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#85

Post by garaetjjte »

jonathanyc wrote: post #52
thriftwy wrote: post #24

You can also dump it and not miss a beat. Much harder to do with Google. Facebook is thoroughly non-essential.

Tell that to people with Android phones. Google Play Services is an opaque blob that cannot be uninstalled and is necessary for nearly all Android apps. And it is constantly uploading your location minute-by-minute to Google for use in things like their "Popular Times" card on search results and who knows what else.

Google location services can be disabled. And there is open Play Services reimplementation, microG.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#86

Post by domevent »

q3k wrote: post #84
ultimoo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to sidetrack here -- but any good recommendations for paid VPNs?

Why would you trust a VPN provider more than your ISP?

Your ISP is a near-monopoly with vast wealth and political connections, and no trust to lose. A VPN is used by a much smaller group of people who will ditch them en masse if any hanky panky comes to light. There is a ton of competition in the VPN space, and they’re mostly selling the same product, so if they lose trust, they’re done.

TL;DR Very different incentives

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#87

Post by some_account »

drawkbox wrote: post #11

Your ISP tracking your every move is scarier than all of them after the ISP privacy bill passed. At least Facebook and Google give you something for it and you can route around them if you desire. No routing around ISPs unless you use a VPN but even then they are blocking those. Broadband/cable/telcos capture everything you do and can now sell that information and do[1]. That bill was the pre-cursor to removing net n…

No. Which company is more powerful with your information? That little ISP who has no real use of it, or Google, the most powerful ad agency with ties to American agencies in the world?

You may be able to bypass Google but almost everybody else won't.

It's time to open your eyes for what they are.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#88

Post by lucb1e »

product50 wrote: post #73
lucb1e wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As such, with Google, I am more than ok them using my data Woah, that was a very different conclusion than I was expecting. The post builds up to how terribly dependent you are, but concludes with "so I'm very happy". I see your reasoning and your point, but don't forget what kind of relation this is (where you pay very little to nothing for most services, money-wise...).

I am happy to pay them money or pay with data. Choose your thing. We can't just keep on operating in a world where everything is free and we don't want targeted ads. And I never used "I'm so very happy". This is where biases come in. My goal was to say that Google services are very useful (to me) and I am ok if in return I have to give them my data.

> We can't just keep on operating in a world where everything is free

Agreed! So let's pay fair and square, rather than them shuffling data around in a manner that is not completely transparent to us.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#89

Post by droidist2 »

taurath wrote: post #22
delbel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was trying to come up with a solution. Something like retroactively classify companies that are taking money or are involved in this type of stuff register as a Political Action Committee. Because this is regulated by the FEC. Make Google, CNN, Facebook, Fox, whatever, disclose they are working for hire to politicize your experience. Then, make it so that every 5 years a company can appeal this retro-active PAC sta…

I’ve always thought that a way to get this passed would be to tell the public that you’d be effecting whichever the other sides media is. For conservatives that’d be restricting cnn, msnbc, etc and for liberals that’d be Fox News brietbart etc. People hate the other side more than they love their side I find.

> People hate the other side more than they love their side I find.

I think that's true, especially because often their views aren't very well reflected by "their side's" pundits, it's just the lesser of two evils.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#90

Post by jimmies »

Ivoirians wrote: post #70

Disclaimer: I work for Google and these views are only my opinion, etc. From my perspective, Google's goals are aligned with improving the world by offering information services. Search, Gmail, Maps, Translate, basically all of the Other Bets, etc.--it's easy to imagine that the people behind them are more concerned with impact on the world than on generating profit or consolidating Google's power. To me, Facebook ha…

I don't have a Facebook account because I am not fond of them. But then, in Vietnam Facebook is big because it does two good things. First, it brings unofficial news to everyone -- you can follow political dissidents. In the past, people had to figure out to get over the firewalls to get to those sources of news. Second, it opens commercial niche retail channels for free to many people: You can find people selling really weird stuff online that you can't find anywhere. For now, it's still a net-positive for many people in the country and many political dissidents are happy to publish their voices on Facebook.

Now with that in mind, Facebook compiled to the Vietnamese government's requests to put their servers in Vietnam (alongside with Google) [1]. The problem is, while Google was never blocked, in the past in Vietnam, Facebook was blocked (more precisely, blocked intermittently). I don't imagine it was hard for the government to block it completely. Let's be honest, no one will join a social network if it requires you to have a VPN to access it. Why wasn't Facebook blocked anymore, all out of the sudden? The whole buddy buddy/kowtow gesture of Zuckerberg to Xi didn't help my confidence and trust either. It's very chilling to see a person with little ethical compass like him to have such an enormous amount of power.

I don't know what is more horrible, them turning in to the government the data of "dumb fucks" following dissidents' news and manipulating them, or people having to figure out how to access news via VPNs like it was in the past. At least, I know not every VPN providers give enough fucks about that country to comply with its government's request. Google was known to be kicked out of China for not complying. Can't say the same thing about Facebook.

But then, I can't do anything about any of that stuff, so I might be ok with it.

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