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Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

craigslist.org

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Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#301

Post by iamnothere »

walterbell wrote: post #212
cookiecaper wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent a couple of months working on drafts and unreleased prototypes of decentralized P2P networks, but eventually, it comes full circle. The internet already functions well enough for purposes of decentralization. Sure, there are some clear improvements and some less clear trade-offs that could be made, but the brass tacks is that these are social issues, not technical ones. They have to be addressed at the social…

Some people became "rich and powerful" because of the relatively-free internet of the 90s and 00s. Why aren't they objecting?

Charitable reading: because they don't want to end up hauled before Congress and raked over the coals like Bill Gates was.

Less charitable: they already made their money and are fine with pulling up the ladder.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#302

Post by pjc50 »

tajen wrote: post #265
pjc50 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prevailing concept that "consent" can be revoked AFTER you have consented No, it can't; but what does happen is people taking "she didn't complain" as evidence of consent rather than evidence of coercion into not complaining.

Well, yes it can. You have to dismiss massive amounts of male testimonies to say that consent has never ever been removed after the fact. Reasoning recursively: To dismiss males’ testimonials, you’d need to take girls’ words at face value, which, in itself, demonstrates that girls’ words are taken at face value by a lot of people in society, hence the recurring massive problem of false convictions.

The idea that there's a recurring massive problem of false convictions for rape is bizarre. In most countries it's extremely difficult to get alleged rape prosecuted in the first place and the conviction rate is low. I'm not going to dispute that it might have happened in some cases but it's a comparatively rare problem.

(Also, I'm going to assume you're not a native English speaker - the contrasting group nouns should be "men" and "women" not "males" and "girls")

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#303

Post by barry-cotter »

zeth___ wrote: post #293
barry-cotter wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop being such a goddamned quitter. Go to r/pua or r/seduction, r/fitness and r/malefashionadvice and follow the advice in the sidebar. If all you want to do is get laid even with a repulsive personality it’s a numbers game and the highest value is in the PUA stuff. Having a body that works like it’s supposed to will both help you with getting some and your mental health. Dressing well is the least important. If you…

If I can meet biological needs like eating by paying some one and not having to hunt and farm, why shouldn't I have the option of doing the same with sex?

I’m not saying you can’t. If you want to, go for it. But feeling that you are charmless and ugly is unpleasant even if you can buy sex. Even if you never want to have sex with someone you’re not paying I’d give the same advice to any man who felt he had a poor personality and physical experience. These are problems that are at worst, and I do mean worst, ameliorable.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#304

Post by pbhjpbhj »

emiliobumachar wrote: post #295
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's much easier to hide illegally activity that mirrors legal activity than it is to hide illegal activity where all the surrounding paraphernalia is direct evidence. Your assertion that legalisation of prostitution will lead to less trafficking of people seems naive to me - you create a larger market and allow people to easily hide.

You bring forth a compelling theory, but I don't think it's true. Compare the market for contraband or counterfeited booze and cigarettes, which "mirrors" legal booze and cigarettes, with the market for cocaine and heroin, where "all the surrounding paraphernalia is direct evidence".

OK, go on, if someone is smoking an illegally imported cigarette it's nearly impossible to tell just by looking that there's been a crime. If they're doing a line you know within a small error margin without any investigation.

Why, because the former is hidden by the legally allowed behaviour.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#305

Post by jacobush »

barry-cotter wrote: post #300
jacobush wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your comment, and the others in the thread too. I think I must be tinted by how it works in Sweden. First of all, the word "trafficking" there is most of all associated with the trade of minors. Also, soliciting sex ("prostitution") is not illegal for adults. Buying the service is. This has some interesting implications. It caters to the "conservative base" who does not want to see fully legalized prostitu…

Whores don’t go to the police in Norway not because they won’t help with assault and such but because the police will get them evicted from their flats. https://books.google.nl/books?id=RAXtCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT172&lpg=P...

The same book says traffickers are less likely to operate in Sweden since the law was introduced.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#306

Post by TeMPOraL »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #260
threatofrain wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if people are content to swat away a problem until they can't see it anymore, despite that the ignored causes continues to generate more misery, then it's hard to be sympathetic to that defensible position. Especially since a lot of people just lost access to romantic venues because a minority of users make a living through sex.

> because a minority of users make a living through sex. // So you deny there is trafficking of people as sex slaves? Or that particular sites enable it? Or?

I think the point is: imagine government banned bars, because some percentage of rapes involve perpetrators stalking victims in bars and getting them drunk.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#307

Post by TeMPOraL »

knowThySelfx wrote: post #262
3131s wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually .onion prostitution services exist already and have for a long time. There was at least one that was very popular around 5 years ago, but I don't remember the name. But you are absolutely right, this is pushing sex workers further underground and therefore making their lives more dangerous.

Would it be surprising to say that trading in this might include Bitcoin?

About as surprising as noticing that e.g. moving some trade to Switzerland involves increased use of Swiss franc.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#308

Post by matthewaveryusa »

These services already exist on the dark web and motivated users will migrate there instead. I think I'm neutral positive -- if this makes very public websites more accountable for their content that's fine. If you still want to pursue your ventures, devious or not, all you need to do is get the tools and knowledge to access the dark web. There's no doubt in my mind that the web we used to know has been taken over by politics and corporations -- the worst of cocktails. So here we are, the dark web is now the free web, and the free web is the corporate web. For me it will make no difference, I'll still have access to both, but for the uninitiated they will go from surfing the web to serfing the web.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#309

Post by NoGravitas »

golergka wrote: post #206
tajen wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the key aspects of prostitution is it provides an alternative outcome to marriage. Why else would a man step into marriage where 100% rules have been thoughtfully designed against him (except love, for as long as it lasts), if he could last a few years longer by using prostitution... Heck, even sex dolls are being forbidden, even though they cause absolutely no harm to humans (a sex doll house is being closed…

You know that you can have consensual sexual relationships outside of marriage, right? They don't even have to be exclusive. Seriously, dude, if you're a "hungry man", open Tinder or just go to a local hook up bar. Hooking up for a one night stand is trivial.

ITT: Incels. Incels everywhere.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#310

Post by kadenshep »

quotemstr wrote: post #68

I am fucking sick and fucking tired of people interfering with the free choice of individuals in any effort to "fix" society and "help" people. Lawmakers and advocates, have some epistemic humility and acknowledge that your own perspective may be mistaken. Not everything is oppression. Not every activity is injustice. Sometimes, people just fucking disagree.

>I am fucking sick and fucking tired of people interfering with the free choice of individuals

I'm not. Because we've done nothing for long enough.

>Sometimes, people just fucking disagree.

If you're going to pretend to care about philosophical principles, you could start with being honest.

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