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Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

craigslist.org

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Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#261

Post by ironjunkie »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #21

This is completely bizarre, we can't go down this route with the internet. It is madness.

I think we need to realize that the platforms that we all use are evil. They are literally the equivalent of the book burning that happened hundreds of years ago, based on their own view of the world.

I want a new internet in which content is NOT posted on platforms. I want to host my own videos and host my own pictures.

This is where we are going. I really hope that the greater public realizes little by little that the tradeoff of the ease of use of those platforms is that they lose all freedom of speech or control over their content.

Not acceptable.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#262

Post by knowThySelfx »

3131s wrote: post #180
zeth___ wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to make the system better they just took the system offline. The next Craigs list will be on Tor and will have a child prostitute section. Congratulations on making things worse.

Actually .onion prostitution services exist already and have for a long time. There was at least one that was very popular around 5 years ago, but I don't remember the name. But you are absolutely right, this is pushing sex workers further underground and therefore making their lives more dangerous.

Would it be surprising to say that trading in this might include Bitcoin?

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#263

Post by hellofunk »

syshum wrote: post #211
SeeDave wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In defense of the "scorched earth approach or nothing" folks: from my perspective... it's a completely and totally human response to faceless, blameless, unapproachable (from their perspective) perpetrators and facilitators of systematic abuse and exploitation of innocent and vulnerable people. If you've ever felt frustrated at an IVR system for routine tasks such as banking, restaurant reservations, canceling a gym…

>>I really wish that I could come forward with a solution to the online sex trafficking problem. Step 1. End Prohibition of Sex Work Step 2. Stop Diverting Police Resources to enforcing laws on what consenting Adults do on their own time (both Prostitution and Drugs) Step 3. Stop Criminalizing Speech driving to further and further under ground were it is no longer tracable at all The "scorched earth" groups are in no…

> Step 1. End Prohibition of Sex Work

All you have to do is study the laws of prostitution elsewhere in the world to understand that they have little to no influence on sex trafficking. Prostitution is legal, explicit, and even taxed in the Netherlands, but sex trafficking remains such a major problem that some large cities, like Utrecht, have outlawed prostitution locally to combat the issue.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#264

Post by zeth___ »

Blackstone4 wrote: post #198
draugadrotten wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems some of the men living in Sweden are among the planets worst sexual predators, to word it carefully. Sweden is pushing new legislation that will increase the number of rapes even more. It will be a law of consent and will shift the burden of proof from the victim to the rapist. Unless the rapist can prove consent, he will be sentenced for rape by negligence. Under the new law, having sex with a traffic victi…

How will this work? If neither party can prove consent, they both rapped each other by negligence? Or does this only apply to Johns?

Blame the man, it's the only way to reach gender equality.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#265

Post by tajen »

pjc50 wrote: post #222
syshum wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.

> prevailing concept that "consent" can be revoked AFTER you have consented No, it can't; but what does happen is people taking "she didn't complain" as evidence of consent rather than evidence of coercion into not complaining.

Well, yes it can. You have to dismiss massive amounts of male testimonies to say that consent has never ever been removed after the fact.

Reasoning recursively: To dismiss males’ testimonials, you’d need to take girls’ words at face value, which, in itself, demonstrates that girls’ words are taken at face value by a lot of people in society, hence the recurring massive problem of false convictions.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#266

Post by jrs235 »

_pmf_ wrote: post #241
syshum wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I really wish that I could come forward with a solution to the online sex trafficking problem. Step 1. End Prohibition of Sex Work Step 2. Stop Diverting Police Resources to enforcing laws on what consenting Adults do on their own time (both Prostitution and Drugs) Step 3. Stop Criminalizing Speech driving to further and further under ground were it is no longer tracable at all The "scorched earth" groups are in no…

Some workers of the business in the Netherlands argue that the end of prohibition worsened conditions.

I assume things got worse because cowardly assholes are now allowed to treat the prostitutes disrespectfully. Before, the assholes that were afraid of the law wouldn't risk going to a prostitute. Now that the law won't hurt them, they go and are demanding disrespectful assholes. Just a guess.

Edit: law abiding != kind, respectful, or moral

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#267

Post by hellofunk »

AFNobody wrote: post #88
tptacek wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose if you work directly with people on the front lines of that problem, Craigslist personals might seem pretty trivial in comparison.

To me, the odd thing is they focus on that instead of legalization and helping people report abuses. Legalization is far from perfect but abuse in Nevada brothels is much lower than as street walkers. It seems it's more a puritanical belief system than a genuine desire to render aid.

As I noted in another comment, all you have to do is study the laws of prostitution elsewhere in the world to understand that they have little to no influence on sex trafficking. Prostitution is legal, explicit, and even taxed in the Netherlands, but sex trafficking remains such a major problem that some large cities, like Utrecht, have outlawed prostitution locally to combat the issue.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#268

Post by castis »

abritinthebay wrote: post #152
superkuh wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are operating under the premise here that what youtube/reddit have banned is something illegal and immoral. Reddit literally banned forums for posting good deals they found for firearms and accessories online. And youtube is banning channels that feature people enjoying their completely legal hobby enjoyed by hundreds of millions of people. No, the problem here is that governments and large institutions are using…

Who gives a shit about Reddit? I’m talking in context of the law that is mentioned in the original article

The person you replied to had mentioned reddit in their comment so it was kind of a natural progression.

They're saying that the scenario where reddit removed some subreddits for wholly subjective reasons is similar to this craigslist thing.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#269

Post by hellofunk »

sersi wrote: post #115
AFNobody wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, the odd thing is they focus on that instead of legalization and helping people report abuses. Legalization is far from perfect but abuse in Nevada brothels is much lower than as street walkers. It seems it's more a puritanical belief system than a genuine desire to render aid.

This is key. I strongly believe that legalization is the only answer to the problem. Driving things underground is only going to cause more issues and abuse to the sex workers. It's kind of ironic when in France, for example, a law gets passed criminalizing the customers while the sex workers go in the street to protest that law saying that it will create more abuse (and one year after, they were right). Trying to st…

> I strongly believe that legalization is the only answer to the problem.

This appears to be a popular thesis among the commenters on this page. But your hunch is not proven by the realities of countries that have legalized prostitution. As I've commented elsewhere here, all you have to do is study the laws of prostitution elsewhere in the world to understand that they have little to no influence on sex trafficking. Prostitution is legal, explicit, and even taxed in the Netherlands, but sex trafficking remains such a major problem that some large cities, like Utrecht, have outlawed prostitution locally to combat the issue.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#270

Post by DanBC »

DannyBee wrote: post #44

This is not surprising, but sad. Years ago, i was dragged (i was the only engineer in the local office) into a whitehouse (or maybe it was state department, i can't remember) sponsored working group on online sex trafficking. The non-profits dedicated to fighting this, while seemingly well-intentioned, were completely and totally unwilling to see any other perspective or try to find shared ground. It was scorched ear…

They tried asking nicely with Backpage, and it failed entirely.
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