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China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

reuters.com

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Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#551

Post by schuke »

eddieplan9 wrote: post #293

I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. The Chinese government owns and runs more than 50% of the economy and 100% of the industries they deem essential. They can not only cut your off completely from planes and trains, but also your electricity, driver license, internet, telephone, banks, ability to get any travel docu…

You forgot to mention they can use facial recognition to ID and publicize pedestrians who don't wait for green light.

The sheer amount of resource and power they can wield against an individual citizen is unparalleled in the entire human history. The only thing stopping them from utilizing it is only its own bureaucratic inefficiency.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#552

Post by meatbundragon »

adventured wrote: post #232
meatbundragon wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First sentence of the Stadium article: > A court in China has sentenced 10 people to death, mostly for drug-related crimes, in front of thousands of onlookers before taking them away for execution. Did you mean sentencing in instead of executing? Based on the article you linked, the executions seem to have occurred elsewhere.

I didn't mean to imply they were shot in the stadium. That's my mistake if it was taken that way.

Unfortunately, the wording you had "executed in stadiums" is categorically false regardless of original intent. Why not edit it?

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#553

Post by psyc »

Chaebixi wrote: post #381
DoreenMichele wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and there are plenty of articles about it. For example: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/prison-... It is also apparently mentioned in Hillary Clinton's memoirs that they had unpaid prison labor at the governor's mansion to save money .

>> Does the United States actually practice slavery in the prison system in any fashion? > Yes, and there are plenty of articles about it. For example: Let's look up the definition of "slave": > a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; Prison labor is not slavery, this is clearly shown by the fact that you can't buy or sell prisoners on the open market . Prison labor is involuntary servitude . I…

Distinction without a difference.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#554

Post by emodendroket »

mirimir wrote: post #508
emodendroket wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with the idea that it "isn't useful to lump in China with Asia overall" because, in fact, there is a lot of commonality between Chinese culture and other Asian cultures.

Well, there are lumpers and splitters, and I tend to be a splitter. But anyway, should one judge China based on Western principles and values. If so, what would be the basis for that? And if not, should one judge China based on principles and values of ? I don't see the basis for that, either. However, it is of course valid for Chinese to judge their own country, based on whatever principles and values they might hol…

Without getting into the weeds of what exactly we should say they are, I would argue there is such a thing as a set of universal principles that anyone should be held to (to take the trite, obvious example, we shouldn't excuse the Holocaust on the basis of some distinct German values).

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#555

Post by foodislove »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #527
foodislove wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most "Chinese" online seem to be paid trolls who deliberately feed misleading and false information. Either that or they have a switch in the brain where any critisism of China leads to a nationalistic brain freeze where they regurgitate silly propoganda. The Hukou system is broken and inconsistent. Getting mine revoked was the biggest pain the ass. I'm sure there are anecdotal evidence to support your view, but the…

This isn’t true or fair. Your comment doesn’t even follow through with the shillness claim. Hukou is broke for sure, but airports are under control of the federal government and have no problem in letting hukou-free individuals travel on passports. My colleague was able to go mostly where I went, except Taiwan as stated above, and our work travelled to a lot of weird airports in the middle of nowheres.

That is simply not true. Maybe your friend lived in a different Hukou area. Either way, just because your friend can, does not mean every can.

This is the problem with China. Just because the system works for Jack Ma, and Xi Jinping's family, doesn't mean it works for everyone

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#557

Post by seanmcdirmid »

foodislove wrote: post #555
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t true or fair. Your comment doesn’t even follow through with the shillness claim. Hukou is broke for sure, but airports are under control of the federal government and have no problem in letting hukou-free individuals travel on passports. My colleague was able to go mostly where I went, except Taiwan as stated above, and our work travelled to a lot of weird airports in the middle of nowheres.

That is simply not true. Maybe your friend lived in a different Hukou area. Either way, just because your friend can, does not mean every can. This is the problem with China. Just because the system works for Jack Ma, and Xi Jinping's family, doesn't mean it works for everyone

Again, the airport doesn’t care where you got your hukou when they look at your passport.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#558

Post by dapreja »

johan_larson wrote: post #192
bkohlmann wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We ban them after due process procedures are complete - which often involves knowing your accused crime and accuser, lengthy evidence gathering, and impartial trials. As I understand the Chinese social capital system, there is no due process, you may not even know if you've been cited for anything until the punishment comes, and violations are identified without appeal.

More than 90% of criminal convictions are the result of pleas, not trials. Few people can come up with the sort of money needed to mount a serious defense to a criminal charge. And in some cases the state can take your money up front, so you definitely don't have the resources to mount a defense.

Shit like this scares the crap out of me thinking i might one day have an unpaid parking ticket that flew off.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#559

Post by noarchy »

cnprthrowaway wrote: post #503
eddieplan9 wrote: post #293

I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. The Chinese government owns and runs more than 50% of the economy and 100% of the industries they deem essential. They can not only cut your off completely from planes and trains, but also your electricity, driver license, internet, telephone, banks, ability to get any travel docu…

I've browsed this site for years now, and I do see this pattern in many posts that critique China. A large number of replies turn the conversation towards how the West is equally bad or worse. Another set of replies talks about how China may inevitably come out ahead. You can check yourself by Googling 10 HN threads that critique China, versus say, Japan or Poland. Is China running some indirect social public relatio…

>Is China running some indirect social public relations in the style of Russian Facebook ads for Trump?

One possible answer to your question:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#560

Post by tomrod »

eddieplan9 wrote: post #293

I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. The Chinese government owns and runs more than 50% of the economy and 100% of the industries they deem essential. They can not only cut your off completely from planes and trains, but also your electricity, driver license, internet, telephone, banks, ability to get any travel docu…

Fair: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2017-05/24/content_294696...

It looks like their is a lot of miscommunication on the issue.

Having seen authoritarian regimes behave on a smaller scale, I would not be terribly surprised if the miscommunication was intentional to see how the desired (very negative) policy was received, before backing down with a retraction to something less onerous.

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