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China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

reuters.com

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Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#521

Post by meganibla »

zanny wrote: post #28
walterbell wrote: post #20

From http://www.collective-evolution.com/2017/10/26/black-mirror-... "You won’t be eligible for … positions in public office … social security and welfare … senior level positions in the food and drug sector … sleep in a bed in overnight trains … higher-starred hotels and restaurants … Your children … won’t be allowed to attend more expensive private schools … We have made extreme advancements in health care because…

The CCP is not interested in progress, its interested in maintaining permanent, absolute power at any cost.

CPC. Not interested in progress? Hahaha. Ok. Keep living under that rock. Compared to other nations Chinese are much more interested in progress. And hence it developed in the last seven decades. And I think you should consider that every state is interested in maintaining power. That is the nature of state.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#522

Post by incompatible »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #335
eddieplan9 wrote: post #293

I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. The Chinese government owns and runs more than 50% of the economy and 100% of the industries they deem essential. They can not only cut your off completely from planes and trains, but also your electricity, driver license, internet, telephone, banks, ability to get any travel docu…

> I am a Chinese expat, and thanks to this policy, I cannot fly in China because I don't have a National ID. A Chinese passport won't do. This is patently not true. There are plenty of Chinese in the previous generation that gave up their hukou/ID card as required when they gained permanent residency in another country, and use their passport internally (when returning to work in China) like us foreigners must (it se…

I'd have thought the Chinese passport and National ID would be linked into a single system: given a passport they could find the corresponding National ID (or lack or) or vice versa. Then why would they care whether you use one or the other in any particular situation?

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#523

Post by jimmywanger »

emodendroket wrote: post #481
jimmywanger wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that the Russians invented rejecting someone's argument on the grounds that the person making the argument is a hypocrite strikes me as rather unlikely. That is definitely exactly what happened. We would say something about them invading Afghanistan or forcibly making satellite states in the Warsaw pact, and they would instantly come back with "Well, we're not the ones lynching black people." It's remarkab…

I do not claim that that did not happen; rather, what I claim is that there is nothing uniquely Russian about saying "what right do you have to criticize us by a standard which you yourself do not uphold?"

Well, there sort of is.

The term you're speaking of "whataboutism" is not refuting the argument on logical priciples, it's an ad hominem attack.

Just because the person accusing you of doing something wrong is doing the same thing does not make it right for you to do it. What is the argument here to justify your behaviours or the judgment of others for your sins, even if they're guilty of the same? If I kill somebody, am I wrong for calling out somebody else out for killing somebody?

The Russians raised this into an art form. They justified Afghanistan by using Vietnam.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#524

Post by StreamBright »

eddieplan9 wrote: post #293

I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. The Chinese government owns and runs more than 50% of the economy and 100% of the industries they deem essential. They can not only cut your off completely from planes and trains, but also your electricity, driver license, internet, telephone, banks, ability to get any travel docu…

Could you share the source for these claims?

I could not find anything that backs what you are saying.

https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-the-Chinese-economy...

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#525

Post by im3w1l »

gus_massa wrote: post #467
whatyoucantsay wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have your extensive comments about the CCP on HN caused you any hassles? The fact that comments cannot be deleted is increasingly unethical as ML makes privacy easier and easier to pierce. People who made rational decisions about the risks of sharing various opinions on a small site in 2010 are now locked into the consequences a decade later when both technology and political landscapes have changed. It would be trul…

> The fact that comments cannot be deleted is increasingly unethical ... Just assume that a few seconds after you post a comment Google, Bing, Facebook and a few other major Internet sites have scrapped your comment and are analyzing it. And there a few aggregators that repeat the HN content and alternative UI for HN. And some users make a local copy to run some statistics or detect dupes or just for curiosity. Some…

"Deleting" a comment is useful against a clueless neighbor that hates you because your dog barks too much.

Probably a more common problem than spy agencies, just saying.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#526

Post by intended »

rqs wrote: post #465
whatyoucantsay wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have your extensive comments about the CCP on HN caused you any hassles? The fact that comments cannot be deleted is increasingly unethical as ML makes privacy easier and easier to pierce. People who made rational decisions about the risks of sharing various opinions on a small site in 2010 are now locked into the consequences a decade later when both technology and political landscapes have changed. It would be trul…

> Have your extensive comments about the CCP on HN caused you any hassles? CCP currently cannot monitoring all foreign websites, so (currently) I don't think people will be hassled because of few archived comments on HM. But who knows, that may change in the future, and somebody may report you just like what people did during Cultural Revolution[0]. So, keep yourself anonymous under another name is always important.…

You dont need drag net fishing all the time.

You can just mine data of a person when they are of interest.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#527

Post by seanmcdirmid »

foodislove wrote: post #504
jjcc wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree with you on this point. Most westerners don't have knowledge about Chinese "hukou" system and easily mislead by false information.

Most "Chinese" online seem to be paid trolls who deliberately feed misleading and false information. Either that or they have a switch in the brain where any critisism of China leads to a nationalistic brain freeze where they regurgitate silly propoganda. The Hukou system is broken and inconsistent. Getting mine revoked was the biggest pain the ass. I'm sure there are anecdotal evidence to support your view, but the…

This isn’t true or fair. Your comment doesn’t even follow through with the shillness claim.

Hukou is broke for sure, but airports are under control of the federal government and have no problem in letting hukou-free individuals travel on passports. My colleague was able to go mostly where I went, except Taiwan as stated above, and our work travelled to a lot of weird airports in the middle of nowheres.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#528

Post by vorg »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #408
newnewpdro wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be interesting to see what the US resembles when its numbers exceed 1 billion people. China in many ways is simply setting the precedent now, how the US follows remains to be seen.

US exceeding a billion people? All countries except some in Africa are on a population decline long term. https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate https://d33wubrfki0l68.cloudfront.net/2c9342e9aa17d2237eade9... https://www.gapminder.org/videos/dont-panic-the-facts-about-... https://vimeo.com/79878808

The U.S., like Canada, Australia, Brazil, and many Spanish-speaking countries in America, along with the former colonizing countries of Western Europe (e.g. England, Holland, France), is an immigration-based country, and so birth rate is only one factor. Given the number of people from China, India, and elsewhere who would immigrate to the U.S. if they could, it's not inconceivable that one day the U.S. will welcome them and their money so Americans can profit from another residential property Ponzi scheme.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#529

Post by pensiveforns »

RubenSandwich wrote: post #4

If anyone wants to see some of the negative effects of a persistent 'social score' that affects real life I recommend this Black Mirror episode: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive .

Isn't that episode the opposite of this? In that episode, it was other people giving you a score, e.g. democracy.

In this case, it's the government giving you a score.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#530

Post by s2g »

eanzenberg wrote: post #372
eddieplan9 wrote: post #293

I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. The Chinese government owns and runs more than 50% of the economy and 100% of the industries they deem essential. They can not only cut your off completely from planes and trains, but also your electricity, driver license, internet, telephone, banks, ability to get any travel docu…

It's been fashionable for a while to bash the top dog. No, the US isn't perfect, but how can you equate it to the shit china does day in and out.

It's become fashionable to ignore China's misdeeds because of the money and hype.
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