361–370 of 602 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Japan has a pretty long history of autocratic rulership.. And has only really had once party in power throughout the history of its democracy (like 3 years or so without): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democratic_Party_(Japa... Not sure its the best counter example
> Japan has a pretty long history of autocratic rulership.. So has all of Europe, though.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you think the financial credit system in the US is working smoothly, you might be mistaken! Post-FACTA ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_and_Accurate_Credit_Trans... ) it's a lot better, but just ask the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau how much ... https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/cfpb-overs...
I feel like I will get Mick Mulvaney and he will tell me that everything was great in the 1950's and that is where he wants to take the CFPB.
I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. The Chinese government owns and runs more than 50% of the economy and 100% of the industries they deem essential. They can not only cut your off completely from planes and trains, but also your electricity, driver license, internet, telephone, banks, ability to get any travel docu…
It's fashionable among certain segments of the population to bash America whenever they can. It's almost pathological. Any time something negative is mentioned about something happening outside the US, there is an inevitable deluge of "well yeah but really bad stuff happens in America too!" comments. I feel that most people doing this subconsciously feel like they're acting as a counterweight to the ultra patriotism…
I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. The Chinese government owns and runs more than 50% of the economy and 100% of the industries they deem essential. They can not only cut your off completely from planes and trains, but also your electricity, driver license, internet, telephone, banks, ability to get any travel docu…
It's terrible, it's even happening directly in the replies do you. This whole post has been almost totally derailed by whataboutism, and a lot of it is literally textbook:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
> The Guardian deemed whataboutism, as used in Russia, "practically a national ideology". Journalist Julia Ioffe wrote that "Anyone who has ever studied the Soviet Union" was aware of the technique, citing the Soviet rejoinder to criticism, ["]And you are lynching Negroes,["] as a "classic" example of the tactic. Writing for Bloomberg News, Leonid Bershidsky called whataboutism a "Russian tradition", while The New Yorker described the technique as "a strategy of false moral equivalences". Jill Dougherty called whataboutism a "sacred Russian tactic", and compared it to the pot calling the kettle black.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does the United States actually practice slavery in the prison system in any fashion? My understanding is that work is optional, comes with a very small amount of compensation as incentive, but is otherwise non-compulsory. Is any US State or Federal prison running cotton plantations in Georgia with forced, uncompensated labor?
>My understanding is that work is optional Its officially optional on paper, but in practice it can be held against you and result in worse treatment and longer prison time (such as being used against you in parole hearings). Also, slavery doesn't require being used for labor. While most slavery is for some economic gain to the slave holder, it isn't a required component.
Except in that in the federal system and many state systems, it's officially required of all able-bodied prisoners and refusal gets extra punishment, such as solitary confinement.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why highlight “black people”? Do white people convicted of crimes not carry a stigma? Hispanics? Notwithstanding the qualifier, I think the difference between criminal records and social credit is the system itself. While flawed at least the (US) court system provide certain safeguards: due process, equal protection, right to remain silent, right to confront accusers, right to a lawyer even if you can’t afford one, e…
Even if we safeguards worked 100% perfectly do they matter if we craft laws that convict a certain group of people? I can't remember the quote exactly, but there's one about the law, in all it's equality, prevents the poor and rich alike from sleeping outside or begging for food. I don't really see a practical difference between the two systems
Safeguards that work 100% and laws that convict a certain group. Moreover, one of the safe guards is “equal protection” (14th Amendment) and if a Law on its face or in application is designed to convict a certain group that law would be declared unconstitutional.
If a Law is being challenged under the 14th Amendment, there are 3 levels of scrutiny:
1. Strict: race, national origin, religion, alienage
2. Middle tier: gender, illegitimacy
3. Minimum scrutiny: all other classes
As to your quote, I for one would love to see a class created based on socio-economic status which receives the highest level of scruitiny.
Nevertheless there are significant differences between our exisiting system of US law and the a unproven/untested social credit system. Maybe in time as it plays out one of us will change our mind.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It isn't the beginning of a new caste system. It is more like a modern iteration of very old Confucian ideals. (Not that I agree with Confucian philosophy) Confucian philosophy had influenced Chinese culture for several millennial, and the oral tradition was that Confucius (Kong Tzu) himself distilled what went into the Analects from much older rites and cultures. The basic idea here is that humans don't start out as…
A caste system dressed up in pretty philosophies is still a caste system. If this is a modern iteration of confucianism, then confucianism is equivalent to a caste system.
Isn't every caste system.dressed up like that?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the cure is the usual "bomb them to democracy", I'll take the abuses...
> If the cure is the usual "bomb them to democracy", I'll take the abuses... That's a pretty flippant statement to make. China is an authoritarian country that's moving closer to an autocracy, let's not "cut them any slack" and "take [their human rights] abuses" based on some cartoonish caricature of US actions. China is developing new forms of totalitarian social control may superficially resemble certain western pr…
I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. The Chinese government owns and runs more than 50% of the economy and 100% of the industries they deem essential. They can not only cut your off completely from planes and trains, but also your electricity, driver license, internet, telephone, banks, ability to get any travel docu…
> Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. But I worry the West will be watching this closely to see how they might implement something similar.
I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. The Chinese government owns and runs more than 50% of the economy and 100% of the industries they deem essential. They can not only cut your off completely from planes and trains, but also your electricity, driver license, internet, telephone, banks, ability to get any travel docu…
> I am a Chinese expat, and thanks to this policy, I cannot fly in China because I don't have a National ID. A Chinese passport won't do. This is patently not true. There are plenty of Chinese in the previous generation that gave up their hukou/ID card as required when they gained permanent residency in another country, and use their passport internally (when returning to work in China) like us foreigners must (it se…
Do you have a cite for this? I know you lose PRC citizenship when gaining another citizenship (and thus a foreign passport), but I was not under the impression that was true for "permanent residents" of other countries. You can be an Chinese expat while still being a Chinese citizen.
Also, Chinese National IDs cannot be renewed overseas, while passports can. I think the law was pretty explicit that Chinese citizens can't fly under their passport (though they can jump through hoops to get a temporary national ID to fly). I know people who were in a bit of a pickle when this law came into effect because they were overseas when their National ID expired. It's certainly another hassle and bother for expats.