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The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

mosaicscience.com

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Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#91

Post by uhhyeahdude »

dorfsmay wrote: post #49
uhhyeahdude wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be correct about these benefits being general side-effects of stress/deprivation. I'm trained to be wary of sexy and intuitive ideas, but I am charmed by anything with a halfway plausible evolutionary-biological basis. Even if it's bro-science.

Fasting is scientifically studied. Google Jason Fung and Valter Lonngo.

I'm sorry, I think I was unclear; I totally agree with you that the benefits of fasting are well documented and extensively studied. In addition to conveying possible mental benefit, the fasting is an attempt on my part to feel hunger again. I recognize that probably does not come off well, but I'm never hungry. It's been years. I don't eat all the time, I just eat when I feel like it. I remember times when I was actually hungry, and while life is easier now, I think it might be useful to go find that hunger again.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#92

Post by lossolo »

uhhyeahdude wrote: post #17

How very odd for me to find this on HN this evening. I'm on "day 2" of my once a week sleep fast, which means things are a bit surreal to begin with. For each of the last seven weeks, I stay awake from Thursday morning until my "regular" bedtime hour Friday evening. I do this because it actually seems to be an effective way to avoid falling into a hole of anhedonia and "stuck-ness." I am hip to many of the cognitive…

Long term sleep deprivation is bad for your health/brain. When you sleep your organism is getting rid of the toxins from your brain. There was a study some time ago that showed if you sleep less than 7 hours a day then proteins connected with Alzheimer disease accumulate in your brain.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#93

Post by 52-6F-62 »

gingerlime wrote: post #47
pgt wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow! I awoke early this morning from a bit of a bender last night and have a similar feeling of mania (the positive, productive kind). At first I attributed it to a GABA rebound, but thinking back, a sleep fast has historically injected a sense of urgency and vigour. I have been fasting intermittently after reading Valter Longo's metabolic oxidation research (the term they used for aging research to get it published)…

I'm also skipping breakfast. Trying to keep at least 16 hours between dinner and lunch. Started nearly a year ago. Generally I feel better, and intend to continue, but: * Somehow I didn't lose much weight. I wasn't particularly overweight to begin with though. Maybe lost 1-2kg over this period(?) * My blood tests showed increase in cholesterol. I was reading about it and it seems common (or not very uncommon). It's s…

You should be careful doing that too regularly. Once a week is the maximum I’ve understood would be healthy for typical first world lifestyles.

It will otherwise coax your body into starvation response. This is true even with low calorie diets.

You can cause you’re body to retain store energy and retain fat rather than in a constant state of burning what you take in.

If you’re looking to lose weight you’re better off just limiting carbohydrates on non workout days. Eat a lot of vegetables and protein, take a multi, and do cardio and high intensity interval training 3-5 times a week.

If you want to build strength and lose weight then mix in resistance training into the routine as well.

As a baseline that schedule will help with anxiety, depression, and get your metabolism on track.

For most people, that is. I’ve been on antidepressants before as well as some anxiolytics. Excercise, vitamins, and eating healthy most of the time does a world of difference. Another benefit is you don’t have to limit you’re calories as harshly. Energy levels go up as well— to the point where sitting at a desk all day is too much idling!

Btw, I eat between 2 and 6 eggs a day (between breakfast and lunch), use butter/olive oil/sesame oil in cooking regularly, and my cholesterol has never been high following that general scheme. No hacks or tricks.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/diet-and-weight-loss/does-met...

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#94

Post by jimnotgym »

jimnotgym wrote: post #25
amelius wrote: post #18

Ok, so this is one possible thing to try when one has depression. Who is keeping a list of all things to try, and where does this experiment fit in that list?

Sounds like a a web app with voting would be a useful thing. In the UK mental health services have almost disappeared, especially for those who are not extreme. Maybe a list of things to try yourself is useful?

Well this got the better of me, there is now a list on Github https://github.com/Jimnotgym/Hacking_Depression

Please PR if you want to comment. I'll do a ShowHN once there is more on it

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#95

Post by mercer »

lossolo wrote: post #92
uhhyeahdude wrote: post #17

How very odd for me to find this on HN this evening. I'm on "day 2" of my once a week sleep fast, which means things are a bit surreal to begin with. For each of the last seven weeks, I stay awake from Thursday morning until my "regular" bedtime hour Friday evening. I do this because it actually seems to be an effective way to avoid falling into a hole of anhedonia and "stuck-ness." I am hip to many of the cognitive…

Long term sleep deprivation is bad for your health/brain. When you sleep your organism is getting rid of the toxins from your brain. There was a study some time ago that showed if you sleep less than 7 hours a day then proteins connected with Alzheimer disease accumulate in your brain.

> When you sleep your organism is getting rid of the toxins from your brain

Is this generally accepted to be true these days?

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#96

Post by geoka9 »

Haven't read the article yet, but it sounds grim, I don't think it can be good for me.

Instead of forced sleep deprivation, try this for a week: intermittent fasting and calorie restriction, good nutrition (veggies, nuts, olive oil, eggs, etc.), no drinking (at all), going to bed early (like 10 pm), waking up early (at dawn in the summer at 4 am would be perfect), but naturally, without an alarm clock.

Doing this, you may find out that you only need 5-6 hours of sleep, especially in the summer. And moderate (outdoors) exercise - this is important.

Since a lot of you guys are in the bay area, you have a lot of sun during the year; that makes this routine a lot easier and more rewarding (sunshine increases the feeling of "high" for most people).

After doing this for a while, you might find out you're naturally high all the time, without going through crashes.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#97

Post by aerotwelve »

mercer wrote: post #95
lossolo wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long term sleep deprivation is bad for your health/brain. When you sleep your organism is getting rid of the toxins from your brain. There was a study some time ago that showed if you sleep less than 7 hours a day then proteins connected with Alzheimer disease accumulate in your brain.

> When you sleep your organism is getting rid of the toxins from your brain Is this generally accepted to be true these days?

I'll leave a more rigorous answer to your question to a doctor, but there is evidence that Alzheimers disease is caused by a buildup of "plaques" (beta-amyloid, a toxic protein) in the brain tissue. This buildup is removed during R.E.M sleep in those without the disease.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/how-sle...

I've heard claims about sleep triggering a general "cleansing" of the brain, but I'm not a neurologist, so I can't say for certain there's evidence for the general case.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#98

Post by ma2rten »

caseymarquis wrote: post #67

This article confuses depression and bipolar disorder quite a bit. They're inducing mania through sleep deprivation in patients with bipolar disorder going through a period of depression. This is somewhat dangerous, as mania can have severe consequences. The article even states that there's a 95% relapse into depression for those not taking lithium. Only people with BPD take lithium. It's not about the lithium, it's…

This should be the top comment! I flagged this article because it is giving bad medical advice.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#99

Post by rhizome »

uhhyeahdude wrote: post #44
somecallitblues wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever tried something like magic mushrooms to perhaps rewire your brain? To remove that everyday filter for several hours and flood your brain with totally new experiences and a new way of looking at things. I think it's worth a shot but you'd have to do it in a controlled environment with people you like and who understand you.

I have, yes. I've had several moderate-heavy psilocibin experiences, each during a major transitional period. I consider [mushrooms] excellent medicine for certain people, in certain doses, at certain stages of development (phenomenological and ontological, not developmental). That said, I cannot in good conscience encourage their use in the context of someone else's mental health, given the really quite serious poss…

I know what you mean by "rewire," but I don't think that term, widely used and accepted though it is, should be used to talk about something so complex and fragile as the brain/mind or however you juxtapose consciousness and experience.

The way I see it, "rewire" implies a substitute perspective, whereas what you're talking about is more about additional perspective.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#100

Post by mercer »

aerotwelve wrote: post #97
mercer wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you sleep your organism is getting rid of the toxins from your brain Is this generally accepted to be true these days?

I'll leave a more rigorous answer to your question to a doctor, but there is evidence that Alzheimers disease is caused by a buildup of "plaques" (beta-amyloid, a toxic protein) in the brain tissue. This buildup is removed during R.E.M sleep in those without the disease. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/how-sle... I've heard claims about sleep triggering a general "cleansing" of the brain, but I'm…

Okay. I was aware of the theories, but from your earlier comment I got the impression that maybe it's now more than just a hypothesis. Either way, interesting links. Thanks!
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