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The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

mosaicscience.com

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Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#31
post #4

It sounds like the theory behind this is kicking the circadian rhythm to see if it improves. > Depression is also associated with altered daily rhythms of hormone secretion and body temperature, and the more severe the illness, the greater the degree of disruption. Like the sleep signals, these rhythms are also driven by the body’s circadian system, which itself is driven by a set of interacting proteins, encoded by…

I can attest that for me a regular sleep schedule works, but only so far.

At first it works kinda well as I feel increasingly settled as days go by, but at some point it seems being too restful kicks my mind into overdrive mode. From experience I can now detect such events, as it starts with a general feeling of everything being awesome, incredible energy, and fantastic happiness as I just am there (as with mindfulness and meditation), do many things† for a day or two, then everything inevitably crashes down†† as I start feeling increasingly but subtly anxious about minute details, followed by an increasing inability to focus and then comes listlessness. If a (even remotely) bad event happens right after the peak happiness state it can send me spiralling down even faster.

The only thing that can curb that is:

- an occasional short night (like getting 3 to 4 hours of sleep) once a week or so, after which I feel surprisingly refreshed. Sometimes it happens naturally as I wake up in the middle of the night and can't sleep, or go to bed late. But it better not last two or three days in a row or then the crashing down thing happens and it's even harder to climb up as the added sleep deficit combined with listlessness makes me very sleepy during the day. Note: I am largely unable to voluntarily control my sleep schedule.

- regular strenuous physical exercise, like daily, and for hours, and preferably outside. It seems I need to shoot my body through a satiated state of physical sensations in order to saturate my nervous system and keep my mind in check. I can skip a day or two but exercising, say, every other day doesn't check out as though the slope, while less steep, is still trending downwards. Outdoors is incredibly important to me as there are so much more physical stimuli (light, wind, sounds) and with greater variations than indoors.

- food and water. Regular hydration is capital for me, and some kind of mineral water is best. Tap water is out of question for some reason (strangely seems to upset my bowel/urinary system after a few days). A balanced diet can do wonders but it seems I can be derailed easily on that front.

I sort of picture my mood swings as f(t+phi) = mood, with f basically resembling a sine wave, and physical exertion seems to help me in adjusting phi. My general strategy to combat that is to try to hit that sweet spot where I'm right before the super-happiness point and attempt to ride the wave using exercise, caffeine and nicotine†† (sadly, using tobacco).

Honestly though I try not to put too much thought into it as I managed to turn anxiety about the situation into more like curiosity. Anyway on a larger scale the general mood trend is sensibly upwards as looked at retrospectively I'm climbing inch by inch out of that hole.

† I tried not being so hyperactive, pacing myself and not doing so many things but it doesn't change a thing to the process.

†† I found out that one of the dead giveaways of when I'm trending towards the downward slope is that I start skipping on automatically hydrating myself.

††† caffeine seems to act as a baseline offset but too much outright prevents sleep, while nicotine seems to act as a dampener, both for high and low swings of mood.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#32
You will kill people with this advice. I'm not even kidding or exaggerating. I wish these quackery articles were banned on HN. Sleep deprivation is incredibly debilitating, it can be worse than being drunk. If you operate heavy machinery in this condition, you put yourself and others at risk. Its impact on mental health can be equally dangerous.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#33

How very odd for me to find this on HN this evening. I'm on "day 2" of my once a week sleep fast, which means things are a bit surreal to begin with. For each of the last seven weeks, I stay awake from Thursday morning until my "regular" bedtime hour Friday evening. I do this because it actually seems to be an effective way to avoid falling into a hole of anhedonia and "stuck-ness." I am hip to many of the cognitive…

Have you ever tried something like magic mushrooms to perhaps rewire your brain? To remove that everyday filter for several hours and flood your brain with totally new experiences and a new way of looking at things. I think it's worth a shot but you'd have to do it in a controlled environment with people you like and who understand you.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#34
I have a history of depression and anti depressants. I stopped them some years ago, and I went to a 2 weeks military training 3 years after I stopped those meds.

Not only did I love it, but it really gave a big energy boost. Awesome sleep.

Maybe depression comes from boredom.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#35

How very odd for me to find this on HN this evening. I'm on "day 2" of my once a week sleep fast, which means things are a bit surreal to begin with. For each of the last seven weeks, I stay awake from Thursday morning until my "regular" bedtime hour Friday evening. I do this because it actually seems to be an effective way to avoid falling into a hole of anhedonia and "stuck-ness." I am hip to many of the cognitive…

Hey... made a HN account just to reply you. Just wanted to say that what you wrote very much so resonated with me, or probably more so, me at a point in the past.

If you ever feel like you just need to talk, please reach out. Sleep is actually always a good thing and once you get on a decent schedule there’s nothing better than a solid 8 hours.

Personally, I always feel a lot more in touch with who I know I am, whether that’s the best version of myself or not, after consistent rest. Would love for you to someday find the same.

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Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#36
This is good news, but also shows how little we actually understand the complexity of our bodies and our brain in particular. We have good antidepressants, but besides observing the positive effects, there doesn't seem much of a consensus on what exactly these psychoactive molecules are doing to help.

So no surprise that something seemly simple like sleep deprivation can have a massive effect on the issue. It's not like we understand all the mysteries of sleep either.

The involved mechanism and chemistry are so complex, and we barley scrap the surface, even with all the advances in medicine. So many people arguing about what depression is, what it's causes are, but it would be foolish to assume we have this even remotely figured out, and I would be very open-minded to anything on this issue.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#37

How very odd for me to find this on HN this evening. I'm on "day 2" of my once a week sleep fast, which means things are a bit surreal to begin with. For each of the last seven weeks, I stay awake from Thursday morning until my "regular" bedtime hour Friday evening. I do this because it actually seems to be an effective way to avoid falling into a hole of anhedonia and "stuck-ness." I am hip to many of the cognitive…

Have you ever tried something like magic mushrooms to perhaps rewire your brain? To remove that everyday filter for several hours and flood your brain with totally new experiences and a new way of looking at things. I think it's worth a shot but you'd have to do it in a controlled environment with people you like and who understand you.

I had a friend with psychotic depression and it was the only thing that made him functional again. Effects would last for a week or two.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#38
post #35

How very odd for me to find this on HN this evening. I'm on "day 2" of my once a week sleep fast, which means things are a bit surreal to begin with. For each of the last seven weeks, I stay awake from Thursday morning until my "regular" bedtime hour Friday evening. I do this because it actually seems to be an effective way to avoid falling into a hole of anhedonia and "stuck-ness." I am hip to many of the cognitive…

Hey... made a HN account just to reply you. Just wanted to say that what you wrote very much so resonated with me, or probably more so, me at a point in the past. If you ever feel like you just need to talk, please reach out. Sleep is actually always a good thing and once you get on a decent schedule there’s nothing better than a solid 8 hours. Personally, I always feel a lot more in touch with who I know I am, wheth…

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Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#39
post #23

How very odd for me to find this on HN this evening. I'm on "day 2" of my once a week sleep fast, which means things are a bit surreal to begin with. For each of the last seven weeks, I stay awake from Thursday morning until my "regular" bedtime hour Friday evening. I do this because it actually seems to be an effective way to avoid falling into a hole of anhedonia and "stuck-ness." I am hip to many of the cognitive…

Wow! I awoke early this morning from a bit of a bender last night and have a similar feeling of mania (the positive, productive kind). At first I attributed it to a GABA rebound, but thinking back, a sleep fast has historically injected a sense of urgency and vigour. I have been fasting intermittently after reading Valter Longo's metabolic oxidation research (the term they used for aging research to get it published)…

> My skin has also improved.

This could be a symptom that you're eating food that is too rich or oily. As someone who's been involved with the care of many types of mammals, if a mammal starts developing spots then it is usually because of their diet, swapping out different food can have a huge effect with regards to this.

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