Bach is my ninth great-grandfather for what its worth.
Can any composer equal Bach?
111–120 of 171 posts
Re: Can any composer equal Bach?
#112I first should admit that I'm a 100% self taught appreciator of classical music. I don't have any formal musical education. Nor any formal history of music education. I'm the only person of my family and friends that seeks out and listens to classical music. So, my knowledge is very uneven and I'm a total pedestrian in this realm. Over the years, I've found music by references from fiction, films and criticism. I've…
Okay, I'll try to help! My background: At about 14, one night with the radio on, on the way to sleep, I heard some music and thought "WOW!". It was Beethoven's 7th Symphony. It can be a lot of fun -- at least one part is great dance music. Then I kept listening, buying records, seeing what I liked and didn't. I found a lot to like. As a math grad student at Indiana University, my dorm was next to the excellent music…
Bravo. Thank you for sharing :)
Re: Can any composer equal Bach?
#113A careful analysis of Beethoven's later works shows him to be a worthy contender. In particular, the Große Fugue [0] and the Op. 106 Hammerklavier sonata [1] (ironically so nicknamed, because at Op. 101, Beethoven directed that all sonatas from that time on be named Große Sonate für das Hammerklavier, and the nickname only stuck to this) show a profoundly advanced sense of counterpoint and structure. In addition to a…
I agree. I hate to be brief, but the key question with Beethoven is what did he want to do? Beethoven was as much a master of the craft as Bach -- he just lived in transitional times (which he helped bring on.) That makes comparisons a bit superfluous.
The problem with comparing great composers is that if they were truly great, they were also iconoclastic, so it's always apples and oranges. The only way I can around that, and it is tremendously imperfect, is to look at how great composers move across genres.
Re: Can any composer equal Bach?
#114If you can name a short ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cVSgEdT4KI . Love, loss, despair, grievance, new hope, closure - it's all in there in this single, short, compassionate-but-not-sentimental, solemn-but-not-sad, perfectly balanced, ethereal piece.
Been loving this lately https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eGybwV3U9W8
Re: Can any composer equal Bach?
#115A careful analysis of Beethoven's later works shows him to be a worthy contender. In particular, the Große Fugue [0] and the Op. 106 Hammerklavier sonata [1] (ironically so nicknamed, because at Op. 101, Beethoven directed that all sonatas from that time on be named Große Sonate für das Hammerklavier, and the nickname only stuck to this) show a profoundly advanced sense of counterpoint and structure. In addition to a…
I agree. I hate to be brief, but the key question with Beethoven is what did he want to do ? Beethoven was as much a master of the craft as Bach -- he just lived in transitional times (which he helped bring on.) That makes comparisons a bit superfluous. The problem with comparing great composers is that if they were truly great, they were also iconoclastic, so it's always apples and oranges. The only way I can around…
Beethoven makes me feel like someone yelling "Look at me working so hard to do these amazing things with notes!"
Bach feels more like someone saying "Listen to this amazing thing I found inside the music!"
They may - arguably - have equal technical skill, but the motivations and musical motivation feel very different.
Re: Can any composer equal Bach?
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fifty years ago, the number one song was “Hey Jude”. Number four was “Sittin’ on the dock of the bay”—both regularly performed, enjoyed and reinterpreted today. There are half a dozen others in the top twenty that you could say the same thing about. Yes. Some of the pop songs today will be around in fifty years. Are they as good as Bach? No. But then again neither is most classical music written today.
> Fifty years ago, the number one song was “Hey Jude”. Number four was “Sittin’ on the dock of the bay”—both regularly performed, enjoyed and reinterpreted today Largely because the Boomers and Gen-Xers are still alive and kicking, and still refusing to grow up, still hanging onto the music of their adolescence. When the last of them passes away, I predict they'll take rock and roll, including its so-called "classics…
Fine. Let’s go back 100 years instead.
In 1918 we find Irving Berlin began composing significant parts of what was to become known as The Great American Songbook. The staying power and quality of the GAS shouldn’t need any defense, but if it does, skim through Wikipedia.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_Songbook
Most of rock and roll will disappear, but the good parts will endure similarly. Just like the music from the GAS era.
And if the electric guitar’s waning popularity is a sign of the death of rock, then I’ve got bad news for the lovers of classical organ.
Re: Can any composer equal Bach?
#117If you can name a short ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cVSgEdT4KI . Love, loss, despair, grievance, new hope, closure - it's all in there in this single, short, compassionate-but-not-sentimental, solemn-but-not-sad, perfectly balanced, ethereal piece.
Been loving this lately https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eGybwV3U9W8
Thank you both those are beautiful.
Re: Can any composer equal Bach?
#118The Chaconne [1] is the most moving piece of music I've ever heard. (hard stop) The story behind it makes it even more so. When you grok it at full volume you'll understand what Douglas Adams was talking about. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaconne
Helene Grimaud's interpretation [1] of Busoni's transcription for piano is also pretty amazing. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw9DlMNnpPM
That gives me gooseflesh. Thank you for this.
Re: Can any composer equal Bach?
#119Since we're on this topic: Is Western classical music (typified by Bach) really the zenith in our human understanding of the 'universal' language of music? Certainly, the complex and subtle tunes and harmonies of classical, in particular, give us goosebumps, provoke intense emotional responses. Do the same phenomena occur in other musical cultures? Traditional Japanese, Chinese, Javanese, Indian - their musical expre…
> Alternative musical structures that are just as valid, yet wildly unfamiliar?
Some music taste is very culture influenced, not questioning that. But I think present some classic music tracks (and I mean not only pieces from Bach & co) to any human kind with any cultural background and it will somehow touch that person.
Re: Can any composer equal Bach?
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would anyone read a serious novel, like Crime and Punishment, instead of a comic book? Mozart's Jupiter Symphony will still be performed and appreciated fifty years from now. Can the same be said for your cherished rap/pop songs?
Yes. And I say this as someone who has been classically trained and absolutely worships the music of Bach (and Mozart for that matter). "The Message" by Grandmaster Flash, A lot of The Beastie Boys, Some Kendrick Lamar, and many other hip-hop tracks and artists will definitely still be played and enjoyed 50 years in the future. There are people who weren't alive at the beginning of hip-hop who are massive fans of the…
> There are people who weren't alive at the beginning of hip-hop who are massive fans of the early artists. They'll be as popular as the greats of early rock, the greats of jazz etc.
How many people still listen to even the greatest of Big Band music? Rock and jazz have been passed down one or two generations but it's too soon to conclude they'll live forever.