Can any composer equal Bach? • Hacker News Board

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#91

Post by compiler-guy » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 7:02 AM UTC

DEbCB wrote: post #77

paulcole wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Go on a pop diet. Cut back on it the way you might sugar or processed foods. Try to spend a year listening to classical music only. Why would anyone do any of these things? Besides the nebulous benefits of realizing how wrong we were for enjoying rap?

Why would anyone read a serious novel, like Crime and Punishment, instead of a comic book? Mozart's Jupiter Symphony will still be performed and appreciated fifty years from now. Can the same be said for your cherished rap/pop songs?

Fifty years ago, the number one song was “Hey Jude”. Number four was “Sittin’ on the dock of the bay”—both regularly performed, enjoyed and reinterpreted today.

There are half a dozen others in the top twenty that you could say the same thing about.

Yes. Some of the pop songs today will be around in fifty years. Are they as good as Bach? No. But then again neither is most classical music written today.

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#92

Post by Intermernet » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 7:04 AM UTC

DEbCB wrote: post #77

paulcole wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Go on a pop diet. Cut back on it the way you might sugar or processed foods. Try to spend a year listening to classical music only. Why would anyone do any of these things? Besides the nebulous benefits of realizing how wrong we were for enjoying rap?

Why would anyone read a serious novel, like Crime and Punishment, instead of a comic book? Mozart's Jupiter Symphony will still be performed and appreciated fifty years from now. Can the same be said for your cherished rap/pop songs?

Yes.

And I say this as someone who has been classically trained and absolutely worships the music of Bach (and Mozart for that matter).

"The Message" by Grandmaster Flash, A lot of The Beastie Boys, Some Kendrick Lamar, and many other hip-hop tracks and artists will definitely still be played and enjoyed 50 years in the future.

There are people who weren't alive at the beginning of hip-hop who are massive fans of the early artists. They'll be as popular as the greats of early rock, the greats of jazz etc.

You have to remember that when Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms etc were composing there was also a lot of absolute dross being composed at the same time. History forgets the garbage and remembers the greats. The same will happen for all genres of music.

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#93

Post by aimeric » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 7:06 AM UTC

Since we're on this topic: Is Western classical music (typified by Bach) really the zenith in our human understanding of the 'universal' language of music?

Certainly, the complex and subtle tunes and harmonies of classical, in particular, give us goosebumps, provoke intense emotional responses. Do the same phenomena occur in other musical cultures? Traditional Japanese, Chinese, Javanese, Indian - their musical expression is markedly different. Try out some ancient Greek scales, from the dawn of our Western civilization: unfamiliar, yet still 'tingly'.

So are there equivalents to Bach that we're just not 'in tune' with? Alternative musical structures that are just as valid, yet wildly unfamiliar?

Akira - Kaneda's Theme: https://youtu.be/hpDvtIt6Lsc

Indonesian Gamelan orchestra: https://youtu.be/sZZTfu4jWcI

What Ancient Greek Music Sounded Like: https://soundcloud.com/archaeologymag/what-ancient-greek-mus...

Ancient Krell Music (Forbidden Planet, 1956): https://youtu.be/oNKhju6Pryg

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#94

Post by coliveira » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 7:09 AM UTC

DEbCB wrote: post #61

HN types think they're the smartest of the smart, yet judging from these comments and from other music-related posts I've seen here, most of you listen to popular music (including rock and rap) near exclusively. The comments seriously offering up pop stars as equals of Bach are just sad. Go on a pop diet. Cut back on it the way you might sugar or processed foods. Try to spend a year listening to classical music only.…

I did that and it seriously changes your perspective of music. It is very hard to go back to listen to pop music after you get the taste of classical.

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#95

Post by archagon » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 7:10 AM UTC

DEbCB wrote: post #61

HN types think they're the smartest of the smart, yet judging from these comments and from other music-related posts I've seen here, most of you listen to popular music (including rock and rap) near exclusively. The comments seriously offering up pop stars as equals of Bach are just sad. Go on a pop diet. Cut back on it the way you might sugar or processed foods. Try to spend a year listening to classical music only.…

Pop music might be compositionally simple, but the exquisite rhythms, melodies, and timbral experimentation will indeed live on for centuries. Beethoven would have killed to write something as catchy as "Yesterday".

Cutting off paths of emotional resonance from your life will only damage you as a music listener and a musician.

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#96

Post by archagon » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 7:12 AM UTC

DEbCB wrote: post #80

maxerickson wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most?

Yes, most. Most HNers have zero appreciation for serious music. This post announcing the death of David Bowie got 1484 upvotes and 301 comments (and the brave few who criticized it as off-topic got flagged): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10879262 By contrast, the death of Boulez, love him or hate him, got two upvotes and zero comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10850214 And the deaths of Claudio Abb…

Well, maybe Boulez should have written music that was actually listenable!

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#97

Post by _emacsomancer_ » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 7:12 AM UTC

DEbCB wrote: post #80

maxerickson wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most?

Yes, most. Most HNers have zero appreciation for serious music. This post announcing the death of David Bowie got 1484 upvotes and 301 comments (and the brave few who criticized it as off-topic got flagged): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10879262 By contrast, the death of Boulez, love him or hate him, got two upvotes and zero comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10850214 And the deaths of Claudio Abb…

In terms of fame, Bowie is more comparable to Bach than is Boulez, so this seems unsurprising to me.

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#98

Post by _emacsomancer_ » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 7:15 AM UTC

DEbCB wrote: post #61

HN types think they're the smartest of the smart, yet judging from these comments and from other music-related posts I've seen here, most of you listen to popular music (including rock and rap) near exclusively. The comments seriously offering up pop stars as equals of Bach are just sad. Go on a pop diet. Cut back on it the way you might sugar or processed foods. Try to spend a year listening to classical music only.…

And what of people who appreciate both 'classical' (in the broad sense, rather than the specific period) and modern forms of music?

Sure, there's plenty of sugary pop music, but there is plenty of serious and meaningful modern music as well.

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#99

Post by DEbCB » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 7:25 AM UTC

compiler-guy wrote: post #91

DEbCB wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would anyone read a serious novel, like Crime and Punishment, instead of a comic book? Mozart's Jupiter Symphony will still be performed and appreciated fifty years from now. Can the same be said for your cherished rap/pop songs?

Fifty years ago, the number one song was “Hey Jude”. Number four was “Sittin’ on the dock of the bay”—both regularly performed, enjoyed and reinterpreted today. There are half a dozen others in the top twenty that you could say the same thing about. Yes. Some of the pop songs today will be around in fifty years. Are they as good as Bach? No. But then again neither is most classical music written today.

> Fifty years ago, the number one song was “Hey Jude”. Number four was “Sittin’ on the dock of the bay”—both regularly performed, enjoyed and reinterpreted today

Largely because the Boomers and Gen-Xers are still alive and kicking, and still refusing to grow up, still hanging onto the music of their adolescence. When the last of them passes away, I predict they'll take rock and roll, including its so-called "classics," along with them.

In fact, rock is already fast dying:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/lifestyle/the-s...

https://newrepublic.com/article/139572/happened-rock-music

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dannyross1/2017/03/20/rock-n-ro...

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#100

Post by niftilyeerily » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 7:34 AM UTC

aimeric wrote: post #93

Since we're on this topic: Is Western classical music (typified by Bach) really the zenith in our human understanding of the 'universal' language of music? Certainly, the complex and subtle tunes and harmonies of classical, in particular, give us goosebumps, provoke intense emotional responses. Do the same phenomena occur in other musical cultures? Traditional Japanese, Chinese, Javanese, Indian - their musical expre…

Indian Classical Music is perhaps the most versatile of all kinds of music I have come across. A traditional western scale has 12 notes, in the Indian system (carnatic) there are four further divisions, making it a 48 note octave. Instead of scales, there are raags and they signify different moods.

Indian Flute Meditation Music: https://youtu.be/mr8GBzTsWqM