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How can families afford children?

marginalrevolution.com

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Re: How can families afford children?

#71

Post by watwut »

craig1f wrote: post #61
CalRobert wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Not to mention how expensive large vans/suvs are to actually drive them around. " Just driving is pretty expensive. Not owning a car saves loads. Unfortunately, it usually takes a lot of money to live somewhere that doesn't require one. Also worth noting - my wife would be at home with the kid right now (I have a much higher income) except she has substantial student debt, so off to work she goes. This means paying…

If you drive down my friend's neighborhood in North Virginia, you see house after house of moms with law-degrees, math degrees, engineering degrees, most with Masters, who said "fuck working" after 5-10 years and decided to become stay-at-home. All with substantial student debt that they didn't work long enough to justify. The number of women who WANT to work is a lot lower than everyone wants to admit. And when they…

Why do you assume they are full filled now or that they decision to stay at home was not pragmatical? Or not sacrifice for what they believe is best for children?

Some are fullfilled, some are not.

Re: How can families afford children?

#72

Post by dragonwriter »

colmvp wrote: post #41
ppeetteerr wrote: post #9

Maybe the Norwegian model/Canadian model is a good example (not that it's increasing fertility, but it's improving affordability). We have: - Subsidized daycare - Subsidized education - 1.5 year maternity leave - Subsidies for families with children under a certain income bracket It's affordable, but couples in western countries don't really want more children (just under 2 is the average)

> It's affordable, but couples in western countries don't really want more children (just under 2 is the average) I was looking at how many contraceptions and items my friends bought for their newborn ranging from things related to feeding/sleeping/playing. And that's not including the highest expenses, namely shelter/transportation/food. I thought to myself, my goodness how did we ever raise children in previous mil…

> I was looking at how many contraceptions and items my friends bought for their newborn

“Contraceptions” for a newborn seems a bit...premature.

Re: How can families afford children?

#73

Post by dragonwriter »

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #33
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #23

This article claims a lot of things and assumes many more. I think "affording" children has never been the primary goal of folks having children. Most folks aren't all that good at predicting what it will cost to raise a child or three. Some costs aren't as much with multiple children (used clothing, for example, or sharing rooms makes housing more affordable). Others are higher, such as child care and food costs. So…

There's some evidence that when women start to out-earn their husbands they divorce at higher rates. Whether biological or social (and probably a bit of both), there is an expectation that men contribute more financially than women do, which explains a lot of why men work more after having children than women do. Plus, women obviously invest more in having children than men do.

> There's some evidence that when women start to out-earn their husbands they divorce at higher rates. Whether biological or social (and probably a bit of both), there is an expectation that men contribute more financially than women do

Alternatively, women who aren't financially dependent on men don't put up with as much in terms of negative situations within marriage. If that's the reason, there's no pressure unless your intent is to keep a wife through material dependence.

Re: How can families afford children?

#74

Post by larkost »

TremendousJudge wrote: post #24
epx wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly my case: I walked to and from school every day, and kept playing on street and backyards' bushes every afternoon. My kid I drive to and from school, he never went to the street unattended, he is 10.

a kid can't really walk to school if it's 5 miles away because it's a suburb

In the U.S. there are an increasing number of places where the schools insist on parents being present for both drop-off and pickup, sometimes to the point that they will call Child Protective Services (government agency) to report Child Endangerment if the kid arrives alone.

We are looking at places for our older child right now, and one of the schools we are looking at has an official document that the parents must present in order to pickup your child. Otherwise they will not release the child.

Re: How can families afford children?

#75

Post by coldacid »

dazc wrote: post #6
compiler-guy wrote: post #4

The standards we expect for childrearing are also dramatically higher today than ever before. Previous generations just sent the kids off to play after school, without much attention; they expected kids to be 100% on their own after highschool (and even before); and on and on. Today we expect far more parent involvement than ever before (at least in the US), this makes it comparatively more expensive to raise childre…

'Today we expect far more parent involvement than ever before (at least in the US)...' True also in the UK. As a kid, the normal after-school routine was to walk home, get changed and play out until it was dark. All achieved with minimal contact with parents. Now kids seem to have very little independent time and this, in my opinion, is/will be very much to their detriment in later life.

The transition from "free-range" kids to the helicopter parenting they experience now also informs a lot of the issues with college and university students being afraid of challenge and ideas they've not already come across. I look at how my brothers and I were raised (in the 80s) and I look at kids born and raised in the 90s, and there's a clear disconnect in attitudes and experiences that can be attributed to whether or not one was constantly supervised and pampered.

Re: How can families afford children?

#76

Post by CalRobert »

dpark wrote: post #20
CalRobert wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Not to mention how expensive large vans/suvs are to actually drive them around. " Just driving is pretty expensive. Not owning a car saves loads. Unfortunately, it usually takes a lot of money to live somewhere that doesn't require one. Also worth noting - my wife would be at home with the kid right now (I have a much higher income) except she has substantial student debt, so off to work she goes. This means paying…

Does your wife’s work actually offset the cost of childcare? I ask because you say your income is much higher than hers but you cannot afford a three bedroom apartment. This seems to imply that her income is quite low. I know a number of families who ran the numbers and found out that the second income didn’t offset the cost of childcare. Or if it did, the excess income was so low as to be negligible. Don’t forget th…

Also, to be honest, we could pay for a three bed apt. Afford is another question. Currently socking away cash to try to buy a house, but that affects ability to go somewhere more suitable for a family in the meantime.

Re: How can families afford children?

#77

Post by jeffreyrogers »

dragonwriter wrote: post #73
jeffreyrogers wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's some evidence that when women start to out-earn their husbands they divorce at higher rates. Whether biological or social (and probably a bit of both), there is an expectation that men contribute more financially than women do, which explains a lot of why men work more after having children than women do. Plus, women obviously invest more in having children than men do.

> There's some evidence that when women start to out-earn their husbands they divorce at higher rates. Whether biological or social (and probably a bit of both), there is an expectation that men contribute more financially than women do Alternatively, women who aren't financially dependent on men don't put up with as much in terms of negative situations within marriage. If that's the reason, there's no pressure unles…

That's probably part of it, but they aren't mutually exclusive. The difference in wages between spouses is small anyways (but men usually earn more), so I don't think the marginal increase in a woman's income changes her ability to provide for herself all that much.

Re: How can families afford children?

#79

Post by votepaunchy »

dragonwriter wrote: post #72
colmvp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's affordable, but couples in western countries don't really want more children (just under 2 is the average) I was looking at how many contraceptions and items my friends bought for their newborn ranging from things related to feeding/sleeping/playing. And that's not including the highest expenses, namely shelter/transportation/food. I thought to myself, my goodness how did we ever raise children in previous mil…

> I was looking at how many contraceptions and items my friends bought for their newborn “Contraceptions” for a newborn seems a bit...premature.

Clearly meant to be “contraptions”.

Re: How can families afford children?

#80

Post by mustardo »

aantix wrote: post #17
ppeetteerr wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious why you wanted 5 kids. Seems like a large number these days.

I'm not the OP that you were asking, but I do want to chime in. My wife and I make a pretty good team. Even the most tense arguments eventually get resolved with a laugh. We have three boys, we're probably going to have a fourth. We feel we have a lot of love to give. And giving someone life is the ultimate pay-it-forward act of gratitude. My parents did it for me. If I can give a few children life and send them out…

> And giving someone life is the ultimate pay-it-forward act of gratitude

Also likely the worst thing you can do for the environment

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