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YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

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Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#261

Post by tux1968 »

drwl wrote: post #10
ausjke wrote: post #4

NBA is totally underrepresented by non-black Males, let's sue them. Swim tournament is severely underrepresented by deep skin colors. Meanwhile track and field is the opposite. Let's mix all colors everywhere based on population percentile, to achieve diversity, equal rights and fairness. Or do something like Dr.King hoped, that is, don't judge a person by color.

I'm not sure that's an equivalent relation. I wasn't able to read the article, but NBA representation has a lot to do with skill and performance.

EVERY job position should be based on skill and performance.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#262

Post by danieltillett »

rdiddly wrote: post #221
danieltillett wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn’t complain about being down voted. To answer your question the issue of discrimination is solved by not discriminating. If women and others are being discriminated against then stop doing this, rather than just start discriminating against other people.

The problem is, there is no way for an organization to tell whether it's succeeding at this, besides looking at the hiring outcomes.

There are actually lots of ways. The most obvious way is to secondary screen using a external party all rejected candidates to make sure that the best candidates was selected. This will also provide you with political cover when you don’t just hire people on the basis of their skin color.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#263

Post by candiodari »

danso wrote: post #253
candiodari wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps he's against discrimination, and that then automatically leads to the "reflexively polarized" opinion. How about we judge people on their merits ?

The GP didn't post their resumé and CV -- nor should that be some kind of pre-requisite for discussion -- so I'm limited to judging and critiquing the content of their comment. Likewise, we shouldn't be interested in each other's character beyond the personal viewpoints we each have relating to the discussion.

I don't see how their race affects anything. Race and gender affect the outcome, but only in negative ways. Either by preventing a fair outcome, or by casting doubt on the fairness of the outcome.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#264

Post by Mithaldu »

danieltillett wrote: post #262
rdiddly wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, there is no way for an organization to tell whether it's succeeding at this, besides looking at the hiring outcomes.

There are actually lots of ways. The most obvious way is to secondary screen using a external party all rejected candidates to make sure that the best candidates was selected. This will also provide you with political cover when you don’t just hire people on the basis of their skin color.

How do you know that external party isn't also biased?

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#265

Post by Mithaldu »

Caveman_Coder wrote: post #177
guildenstern wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nevermind, hn is not the place for discussion of race.

1. Discrimination is bad. 2. Minorities have faced discrimination the most. 3. Let's discriminate against Whites/Asians to correct #2, even though we accept the truth of #1. I don't get this thought process at all..."lets fight discrimination with more discrimination!"

It's not simply more discrimination though. It rebalances the existing discrimination.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#266

Post by notacoward »

wycs wrote: post #68
neerkumar wrote: post #8

Anyone who has worked for a large tech company in SF in the last 3/4 years knows that this has happened everywhere. In fairness, Google was one of the very last ones among large tech companies to play the quota game. But the problem is that that's a game that once the first company starts playing it, everyone else is forced to play it too. Company X publishes a report with amazing diversity numbers and brands itself…

Then company X gets rightfully trounced by a Chinese firm 5 years from now which does not share our ridiculous racial taboos. Some crimes are self policing.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that Chinese firms don't have their own racial taboos? Or gender issues? That directly contradicts every experience I've had or report I've heard. Aren't their crimes self-policing too?

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#267

Post by friedButter »

wutbrodo wrote: post #189
oceanghost wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the most ironic statement possible... as a white man, I once was told, "We're only hiring women and niggers."

Did this actually happen to you? Out of curiosity, in what time period and industry? I only ask because I imagine that even the most racist HR person in the world would know to show more discretion.

> I imagine that even the most racist HR person in the world would know to show more discretion

Only cause you mentioned "world", its pretty common for only women, or even women who have taken breaks to raise a child to be eligible for many jobs in India, including at companies considered "Big4" like Microsoft.

There is also a suspension of the right to equality in favour of certain castes, and 50-70% of govt jobs and govt college seats can only be occupied by people from these castes.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#269

Post by friedButter »

Const-me wrote: post #174
spicymaki wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is not popular, but honestly how do you stop discrimination against women and others? It is easy to say “stop doing this,” but does that happen?

Blind hiring _might_ work: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/magazine/is-blind-hiring-... To ignore gender this should be combined with gender-neutral voice processing for phone interviews, but it’s doable and not that hard.

These guys tried it out, I'll leave the interpretation of the conclusion to the reader

http://blog.interviewing.io/we-built-voice-modulation-to-mas...

(yes, its inconclusive, but)

> for technical ability, it appeared that men who were modulated to sound like women did a bit better than unmodulated men and that women who were modulated to sound like men did a bit worse than unmodulated women. Though these trends weren’t statistically significant, I am mentioning them because they were unexpected and definitely something to watch for as we collect more data.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#270

Post by notacoward »

throwaway9837 wrote: post #211

The phrase "historically underrepresented groups" in the US hides the truth that: historically underrepresented = minorities - Asian-Americans + white women Imagine if a policy were instituted that benefited minorities, then someone proposed that it should be tweaked so that it didn't help Asian-Americans so much and helped white women instead. They'd be laughed out of the room. Engineering is one of the few fields A…

> Imagine if a policy were instituted that benefited minorities, then someone proposed that it should be tweaked so that it didn't help Asian-Americans so much and helped white women instead. They'd be laughed out of the room.

That exactly describes the policies many have adopted, either explicitly or implicitly, and they're often deadly serious about it. It's no secret that both Jews and Asians are generally treated as white/majority/whatever for diversity purposes, despite their respective histories or current demographics.

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