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China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

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Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#41
post #28

It's amazing to me how China is so effectively creating a 1984-type situation without much stir among the rest of the world. These chat programs are super important for everyday life in China. The same company that provides chatting also provides your ability to pay for everything, and a credit score that determines what you can buy, how much you pay, and more. So if you say something you shouldn't, this could very e…

What scares me more is the cheerleading and defense of this in the West, and the way this is voluntarily happening here.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J24C0TI

This is a telescreen.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They become less agreeing to western values after spending years in US. (I am one of those examples myself) Can you explain which values you're referring to and why you don't agree with them?

>Can you explain which values you're referring to and why you don't agree with them? I can imagine that personal property rights and freedom of speech are not included in that list of disagreeable values.

democracy, to begin with... at least American style of democracy

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#43
post #20

From the outside looking in it seems like Xi has been doing a great job leading China. Are there any serious contenders for Chinese leadership like Navalny in Russia? Not to mention that historically there have been many excellent leaders who rules for decades. An arbitrary term limit can be useful to prevent corruption, but it's also the reason for the fiasco that is Washington in 2018.

There's a reason why it looks like he's doing a great job from the outside. Same with why there aren't really any viable alternatives. His political rivals have been punished with corruption charges[1], and he's ruled China with a calculated level of control that hasn't been seen in decades[2].

The move to remove term limits means he will be an absolute dictator for life. One of the only "good" things about the Chinese political system was the 10 year limit, and governance through an oligarchy, so there wouldn't be another cult of Mao type scenario. Since taking office Xi has slowing consolidated power for himself alone, and now with the removal of term limits, I think his control over China is complete.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-corruption-xi-insig...

[2] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/02/china... - There's a better video report of surveillance on Bloomberg I think (I remember it was on a business news site)? but I can't find the link right now.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#44
post #28

It's amazing to me how China is so effectively creating a 1984-type situation without much stir among the rest of the world. These chat programs are super important for everyday life in China. The same company that provides chatting also provides your ability to pay for everything, and a credit score that determines what you can buy, how much you pay, and more. So if you say something you shouldn't, this could very e…

There is already a "sesame" score built in Sesame Credit by Alibaba (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesame_Credit)

The Wired article is a little more exaggerating (https://www.wired.com/story/age-of-social-credit/) but here is the rough breakdown of your score according to https://www.zhihu.com/question/27844479

1. Identity Characteristics (15%) Public Security Real Name Authentication Identity Information Information Stability ... 2. Credit History (35%) Credit Card Repayment History Micronesia Repayment Record Utilities Fee Ticket ... 3. Compliance Capability (20%) Payment Account balance balance balance balance car information real estate information ...... 4. Personal connections (5%) relationship circle circle of friends credit level of social influence ... ... 5. behavior preferences (25%) account activity level consumer level payment level consumer preferences ...

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One should asume "pro-China" means against dictatorship and presidents for life, right? There is no people or culture on Earth that stands to gain from oligarchy.

You'd be surprised how many people in China are seriously pro-amendment, and agrees that Xi should have a 3rd term or more. Though it's probably also true that tons of people are shocked by the news

I've looked a bit in your posting history and can't say with confidence that you are shill, but a certain patern is clearly emerging: the Chinese government is always right, it serves the people and listens to them, in fact it knows what people want; there is certainly no need for those pesky elections and wasted energy voting. Oligarchy ad infinitum.

In the off chance that you are a real person, I'm sorry to say but you have the gullibility and critical thinking of a child and I mean that in the most non-ofensive way. It's troubling that propaganda could be so effective.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#46
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you name six of those “great rulers” and as a bonus, make those sure those six allowed for a peaceful transfer of power when they were done. No fair if you pick rulers who were “great” and the whole place suffered terribly upon their death or removal from power.

Off the top of my head: Solon, Trajan, Hadrian, Marcus Aurelius, Akbar, Charlemange There are many more examples, those are just some that come to mind right away. You can argue whether or not they were "good", but they certainly did good things for their empires.

I too yearn for the good old days of the Massacre of Verden, and forced religious conversion under penalty of death.

...and a bunch of Roman emperors. I prefer modern politics to that of imperial Rome, thanks.

Oh, and Solon. Arguably a truly great man, but um...

After completing his work of reform, Solon surrendered his extraordinary authority and left the country. According to Herodotus[123] the country was bound by Solon to maintain his reforms for 10 years, whereas according to Plutarch[59] and the author of the Athenian Constitution[124] (reputedly Aristotle) the contracted period was instead 100 years. A modern scholar[125] considers the time-span given by Herodotus to be historically accurate because it fits the 10 years that Solon was said to have been absent from the country.[126] Within 4 years of Solon's departure, the old social rifts re-appeared, but with some new complications. There were irregularities in the new governmental procedures, elected officials sometimes refused to stand down from their posts and occasionally important posts were left vacant. It has even been said that some people blamed Solon for their troubles.[127] Eventually one of Solon's relatives, Peisistratos, ended the factionalism by force, thus instituting an unconstitutionally gained tyranny. In Plutarch's account, Solon accused Athenians of stupidity and cowardice for allowing this to happen.[128]

I’ll argue that off the top of your head is what’s getting you into so much trouble with sweeping generalizations.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#47
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From the outside looking in Exactly, there's your problem. China is suffering from 300%+ debt, capital outflows (hidden, unreported), fake gdp growth (several provinces have claimed 20-30% fake revenue), demographics time bomb, middle income trap, shrinking population (800M estimated in 2100), corruption, pollution, belligerent behaviors against all its neighbors (Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam, Australia, Ind…

I can think of a number of first world nations sufferings from the same issues.

No you can't. Even Greece doesn't have that level of GDP to debt, let alone the level of potential fraud in official figures.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not surprising at all. In fact, many of the Chinese expats (visitors of mitbbs.com) are pro-china in general. They become less agreeing to western values after spending years in US. (I am one of those examples myself)

One should asume "pro-China" means against dictatorship and presidents for life, right? There is no people or culture on Earth that stands to gain from oligarchy.

I'm an American, I've had many close Chinese friends. What follows is completely anecdotal, but I've spent a lot of time trying to wrap my mind around it, for what it is worth.

Our cultures are incredibly different. At the same time our cultures are both unusually strong. And for some reason, part of American culture seems to be assuming everyone in the world is just like us, just in different circumstances. This is extremely foolish.

It took me quite a while to be able to understand some things about my Chinese friends that really confused and sometimes frustrated me. A big part of it is the American concept of freedom and personal independence is practically part of our DNA, while it is not valued very highly by many Chinese. Stability, peace and order are highly valued. Of course it would be nice to be able to do whatever you want, but it is much more important that the government is strong. Period. And you get away with what you can as an individual (I've noticed much less respect for the rule of law, much greater respect for personal relationships). And of course many (not all) are highly patriotic, as a great culture with a great history that has been under great pressure for generations, and feels that the rest of the world doesn't respect them like they should or wants to see them fail.

I guess I'd sum it up, that it seems to me an unusual amount of mainland Chinese would choose strength over freedom, and almost all mainland Chinese see themselves as part of a bigger society and a somewhat oppressive government is inevitable and it is futile to resist.

In America, we would prefer to free 10 guilty people than unjustly imprison 1 innocent person. In China, the concept is reversed, it is better to imprison 10 innocent people than let 1 guilty person go free. I actually heard someone say that. Think about it.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#49

I hope that in my lifetime we see a revolution in China that overthrows the current authoritarian state and things like the great firewall and quasi-private/state run agencies go the way of the dodo bird. Unfortunately I don't see big American companies doing anything but continuing to court China and their growing class of wealthy consumers.

Google did not. There are things I dislike about the company, but they deserve props for that.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#50
post #28

It's amazing to me how China is so effectively creating a 1984-type situation without much stir among the rest of the world. These chat programs are super important for everyday life in China. The same company that provides chatting also provides your ability to pay for everything, and a credit score that determines what you can buy, how much you pay, and more. So if you say something you shouldn't, this could very e…

What scares me more is the cheerleading and defense of this in the West, and the way this is voluntarily happening here. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J24C0TI This is a telescreen.

China's GDP is doing great, and GDP growth is the only thing that matters to quite a few people.
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