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China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

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Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#31

Post by tonylinn80 »

cornholio wrote: post #22
tonylinn80 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not surprising at all. In fact, many of the Chinese expats (visitors of mitbbs.com) are pro-china in general. They become less agreeing to western values after spending years in US. (I am one of those examples myself)

One should asume "pro-China" means against dictatorship and presidents for life, right? There is no people or culture on Earth that stands to gain from oligarchy.

You'd be surprised how many people in China are seriously pro-amendment, and agrees that Xi should have a 3rd term or more.

Though it's probably also true that tons of people are shocked by the news

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#33

Post by woolvalley »

antichronology wrote: post #29
ilamont wrote: post #18

I have one Chinese friend who employs a double entendre, calling him "Xitler" In all seriousness, this is a black period for Chinese people and China's neighbors. The fledgling democracy in Hong Kong, and democratic nations around China's periphery including Taiwan, Japan, Nepal, and India should be very wary dealing with a strongman who will stop at nothing to further his power and nationalism-focused legacy.

I wonder if it will have some sort of long term impact on the economy. Is there a way of measuring relative government authoritarianism on economic development of a nation?

China was already an authoritarian nation, how much of an effective difference would this make?

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#34

Post by IntronExon »

briga wrote: post #20

From the outside looking in it seems like Xi has been doing a great job leading China. Are there any serious contenders for Chinese leadership like Navalny in Russia? Not to mention that historically there have been many excellent leaders who rules for decades. An arbitrary term limit can be useful to prevent corruption, but it's also the reason for the fiasco that is Washington in 2018.

Can you name six of those “great rulers” and as a bonus, make those sure those six allowed for a peaceful transfer of power when they were done. No fair if you pick rulers who were “great” and the whole place suffered terribly upon their death or removal from power.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#35

Post by yusuke10 »

briga wrote: post #20

From the outside looking in it seems like Xi has been doing a great job leading China. Are there any serious contenders for Chinese leadership like Navalny in Russia? Not to mention that historically there have been many excellent leaders who rules for decades. An arbitrary term limit can be useful to prevent corruption, but it's also the reason for the fiasco that is Washington in 2018.

> From the outside looking in

Exactly, there's your problem. China is suffering from 300%+ debt, capital outflows (hidden, unreported), fake gdp growth (several provinces have claimed 20-30% fake revenue), demographics time bomb, middle income trap, shrinking population (800M estimated in 2100), corruption, pollution, belligerent behaviors against all its neighbors (Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam, Australia, India, etc), smart people wanting leave, rich people wanting to leave, etc

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#36

Post by [deleted] »

tonylinn80 wrote: post #14
eddieplan9 wrote: post #9

Many sites hosted outside of China that Chinese expats frequent (like http://mitbbs.com ) have also been flooded with pro-amendment messages. Google Translate of the site: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&...

Not surprising at all. In fact, many of the Chinese expats (visitors of mitbbs.com) are pro-china in general. They become less agreeing to western values after spending years in US. (I am one of those examples myself)

[deleted]

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#37

Post by antichronology »

woolvalley wrote: post #33
antichronology wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if it will have some sort of long term impact on the economy. Is there a way of measuring relative government authoritarianism on economic development of a nation?

China was already an authoritarian nation, how much of an effective difference would this make?

provide an economic argument for not implementing additional authoritarian policies. Seems that these decisions are incredibly hard to measure. For example how much did Turkey's economy suffer from the previous failed coup?

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#38

Post by briga »

IntronExon wrote: post #34
briga wrote: post #20

From the outside looking in it seems like Xi has been doing a great job leading China. Are there any serious contenders for Chinese leadership like Navalny in Russia? Not to mention that historically there have been many excellent leaders who rules for decades. An arbitrary term limit can be useful to prevent corruption, but it's also the reason for the fiasco that is Washington in 2018.

Can you name six of those “great rulers” and as a bonus, make those sure those six allowed for a peaceful transfer of power when they were done. No fair if you pick rulers who were “great” and the whole place suffered terribly upon their death or removal from power.

Off the top of my head: Solon, Trajan, Hadrian, Marcus Aurelius, Akbar, Charlemange

There are many more examples, those are just some that come to mind right away. You can argue whether or not they were "good", but they certainly did good things for their empires.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#39

Post by ilamont »

woolvalley wrote: post #33
antichronology wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if it will have some sort of long term impact on the economy. Is there a way of measuring relative government authoritarianism on economic development of a nation?

China was already an authoritarian nation, how much of an effective difference would this make?

When strongman-based cults of personality (real or wannabe) appoint themselves ruler for life, policy can go off the rails. Wars, purges, persecution of minority groups, and civil unrest are more likely. Corrupt systems of checks and balances, which may have already been weak, slide ever further.

Mao, Stalin, Chavez, Castro, Hitler, Mussolini, Chiang Kai-Shek ... a few of these strongmen presided over brief periods of spectacular economic growth, but always under unsustainable conditions. Many citizens (and the citizens of neighboring countries) paid a terrible price.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#40

Post by briga »

yusuke10 wrote: post #35
briga wrote: post #20

From the outside looking in it seems like Xi has been doing a great job leading China. Are there any serious contenders for Chinese leadership like Navalny in Russia? Not to mention that historically there have been many excellent leaders who rules for decades. An arbitrary term limit can be useful to prevent corruption, but it's also the reason for the fiasco that is Washington in 2018.

> From the outside looking in Exactly, there's your problem. China is suffering from 300%+ debt, capital outflows (hidden, unreported), fake gdp growth (several provinces have claimed 20-30% fake revenue), demographics time bomb, middle income trap, shrinking population (800M estimated in 2100), corruption, pollution, belligerent behaviors against all its neighbors (Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam, Australia, Ind…

I can think of a number of first world nations sufferings from the same issues.
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