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Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

reuters.com

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Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#61

Post by bildung »

Tuna-Fish wrote: post #40
guardian5x wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but some of your statements are only partially correct. In fact germany exports more energy than it imports. ( https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/en/press-media/news/2016/germa... ) Also the popularity of diesel might have other factors as well.

Regardless of exporting a lot of electricity, they are also now completely dependent on French nuclear power for energy security. German renewable sources are intermittent. In short, they produce energy when there is enough wind and when the sun shines, and both of those are conditions that correlate heavily over all of Germany. German electricity demand largely does not match them -- unlike in hotter climates, air c…

Same difference with nuclear power. Starting and stopping nuke plants is very expensive/inefficient, yet energy demand is fluctuating wildy. That's why there is an international network for transmitting energy.

One example is French excess nuclear energy in the summer (in central Europe AC are very uncommon, so energy demand is low when it's hot): Germany can more easily switch off renewable plants and import French nuclear power, yet still is a net exporter.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#62

Post by TomMarius »

jonasvp wrote: post #55
TomMarius wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd also practically stop economic growth of areas outside large cities and slow down economic growth of the city itself. Many businesses would be ruined (and thus people working on them). Many people would loose their jobs. This is a very backwards approach. Why don't we destroy our cities that have replaced the beautiful nature that used to be there instead of them?

[citation needed] Cars are a net negative for societies (see e.g. https://tu-dresden.de/bu/verkehr/ivs/voeko/ressourcen/dateie... ). Just imagine having most (80%+) of goods transported by cargo bike: lots of (local!) employment, lots of new technology needed, etc.

So let's take a different approach: Let's find a better solution for individual transportation that doesn't require human labor (e.g. pedaling) and offers the same benefits (ability to comfortably make 500 km per working day, for example - that's average daily mileage of a taxi driver).

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#63

Post by Xylakant »

yostrovs wrote: post #19

It's important to note that popularity of diesel is the doing of the German government. The fuel is subsidized for the sake of the environment because it's more efficient. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/eb8be120-de5... The situation is similar to Germany's work on its electric power sources. Nuclear was turned off because it's dangerous. Now Germany spews out about same carbon as before giant investm…

Diesel fuel is taxed lower primarily because it’s historically been the fuel for trucks. Using Diesel engines in cars is a comparatively new development.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#64

Post by kss238 »

TomMarius wrote: post #60
kss238 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A city ban on cars would effect areas outside of cities?

Yes, of course. People from outside the city come to the city by car to buy goods and offer their services because mass transit is not available or not practical. It's impossible to make mass transit practical for everyone.

So how does that stop economic growth of areas outside of the city? Sounds like it would ignite economic growth as smaller cities have to create their own services.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#65

Post by 72deluxe »

jonasvp wrote: post #55
TomMarius wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd also practically stop economic growth of areas outside large cities and slow down economic growth of the city itself. Many businesses would be ruined (and thus people working on them). Many people would loose their jobs. This is a very backwards approach. Why don't we destroy our cities that have replaced the beautiful nature that used to be there instead of them?

[citation needed] Cars are a net negative for societies (see e.g. https://tu-dresden.de/bu/verkehr/ivs/voeko/ressourcen/dateie... ). Just imagine having most (80%+) of goods transported by cargo bike: lots of (local!) employment, lots of new technology needed, etc.

Like sofas, armchairs, refrigerators, washing machines, dishwashers, flat-screen TVs and oak beds?

Great idea, but how would you feasibly transport them?

The deliveroo boxes are going to have to increase in size...

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#66

Post by TomMarius »

kss238 wrote: post #64
TomMarius wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, of course. People from outside the city come to the city by car to buy goods and offer their services because mass transit is not available or not practical. It's impossible to make mass transit practical for everyone.

So how does that stop economic growth of areas outside of the city? Sounds like it would ignite economic growth as smaller cities have to create their own services.

If it was better to have these services in the area outside the city, they'd already exist. These areas are too sparsely populated for these services to practically exist, and the ones that already exist depend on car traffic from the cities that would cease to exist if it was impractical to own a car in the city.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#67

Post by dankusmcmeme »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #44

I am so confused by government policy here in the UK. Right now I'm looking at a 5 year old used Diesel car with £0 road tax and 70+ MPG for about 10k GBP. My current Petrol engine costs £130/annum road tax, and only gets 30-40 MPG, I can also buy petrol cars with road tax of £240-500/annum (based on emissions) But if I buy the Diesel, it could be banned or worthless in a few years, because of these types of policies…

There's some politicians including some in the government that don't want to punish people for following the past recommendations of the government i.e. buying a diesel car.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#69

Post by madez »

jacquesm wrote: post #53
TheLostOne wrote: post #45

As a German who never owned a car (have driver license 30+ years) and never will, hurray! Next: Petrol cars please. Costs for cities would decrease a lot [1], room for bicycles would increase, noise would drop to a level which can't believed, ambulances would be adjusted to walking persons instead of loud cars with their stereos on and air would be wonderful. [1] https://www.amazon.de/High-Cost-Free-Parking/dp/193236…

And the German economy would crash, but never mind that. Before you ban all petrol cars you will first need something that can replace them because not everybody is in a position to use public transport both due to capacity, speed and door-to-door elements.

You claim things without being knowledgeable of the matter. For certain businesses that require door to door contact there are exceptions. You don't know the plans with regarding alternative means of transportation.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#70

Post by ygra »

mtgx wrote: post #22
dingo_bat wrote: post #3

Is this backed by real science? I was under the impression that modern diesels were highly efficient and quite within the acceptable emission standards.

Diesel cars produce less CO2, and I believe that's only because diesel engines use less fuel than gas engines (about 40% less). This was the idea behind "diesel being cleaner". However, diesel is way more dangerous to human life because of the NOx particles. This is why diesel cars will now be the first to go.

> because of the NOx particles

You may be lumping two things together there: (NOₓ) NO and NO₂, as well as particulate matter. Those are different products of the combustion, with different environmental and health effects.

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