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Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

reuters.com

51–60 of 345 posts

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NOx is also the biggest product of animal agriculture. It also has an effect on climate change. Global warming potential is around 300 times larger than CO2. [1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_potential#Value...

Not a chemist, but pretty sure Nitrous oxide (N2O) isn't in the NOx family.

True.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#52

As a German who never owned a car (have driver license 30+ years) and never will, hurray! Next: Petrol cars please. Costs for cities would decrease a lot [1], room for bicycles would increase, noise would drop to a level which can't believed, ambulances would be adjusted to walking persons instead of loud cars with their stereos on and air would be wonderful. [1] https://www.amazon.de/High-Cost-Free-Parking/dp/193236…

It'd also practically stop economic growth of areas outside large cities and slow down economic growth of the city itself. Many businesses would be ruined (and thus people working on them). Many people would loose their jobs.

This is a very backwards approach. Why don't we destroy our cities that have replaced the beautiful nature that used to be there instead of them?

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#53

As a German who never owned a car (have driver license 30+ years) and never will, hurray! Next: Petrol cars please. Costs for cities would decrease a lot [1], room for bicycles would increase, noise would drop to a level which can't believed, ambulances would be adjusted to walking persons instead of loud cars with their stereos on and air would be wonderful. [1] https://www.amazon.de/High-Cost-Free-Parking/dp/193236…

And the German economy would crash, but never mind that. Before you ban all petrol cars you will first need something that can replace them because not everybody is in a position to use public transport both due to capacity, speed and door-to-door elements.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#54
post #6

Is this backed by real science? I was under the impression that modern diesels were highly efficient and quite within the acceptable emission standards.

Diesel cars have been under fire for quite some time because auto makers across the entire industry cheat on emission tests: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_emissions_scandal

Episode 1 (Hard NOx) of the Netflix series "Dirty Money" covers this quite well: https://www.netflix.com/ie/title/80118100 The other episodes are also worth a watch.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#55

As a German who never owned a car (have driver license 30+ years) and never will, hurray! Next: Petrol cars please. Costs for cities would decrease a lot [1], room for bicycles would increase, noise would drop to a level which can't believed, ambulances would be adjusted to walking persons instead of loud cars with their stereos on and air would be wonderful. [1] https://www.amazon.de/High-Cost-Free-Parking/dp/193236…

It'd also practically stop economic growth of areas outside large cities and slow down economic growth of the city itself. Many businesses would be ruined (and thus people working on them). Many people would loose their jobs. This is a very backwards approach. Why don't we destroy our cities that have replaced the beautiful nature that used to be there instead of them?

[citation needed]

Cars are a net negative for societies (see e.g. https://tu-dresden.de/bu/verkehr/ivs/voeko/ressourcen/dateie...). Just imagine having most (80%+) of goods transported by cargo bike: lots of (local!) employment, lots of new technology needed, etc.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#56

I am so confused by government policy here in the UK. Right now I'm looking at a 5 year old used Diesel car with £0 road tax and 70+ MPG for about 10k GBP. My current Petrol engine costs £130/annum road tax, and only gets 30-40 MPG, I can also buy petrol cars with road tax of £240-500/annum (based on emissions) But if I buy the Diesel, it could be banned or worthless in a few years, because of these types of policies…

I thin 240/annum is small compared to the devaluation that diesel cars will go through. The air quality in London is awful (I went there for 2 days and couldn't stand it), so laws will change there as well.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#57

As a German who never owned a car (have driver license 30+ years) and never will, hurray! Next: Petrol cars please. Costs for cities would decrease a lot [1], room for bicycles would increase, noise would drop to a level which can't believed, ambulances would be adjusted to walking persons instead of loud cars with their stereos on and air would be wonderful. [1] https://www.amazon.de/High-Cost-Free-Parking/dp/193236…

It'd also practically stop economic growth of areas outside large cities and slow down economic growth of the city itself. Many businesses would be ruined (and thus people working on them). Many people would loose their jobs. This is a very backwards approach. Why don't we destroy our cities that have replaced the beautiful nature that used to be there instead of them?

A city ban on cars would effect areas outside of cities?

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#58

It's important to note that popularity of diesel is the doing of the German government. The fuel is subsidized for the sake of the environment because it's more efficient. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/eb8be120-de5... The situation is similar to Germany's work on its electric power sources. Nuclear was turned off because it's dangerous. Now Germany spews out about same carbon as before giant investm…

I was in Spain last year for several weeks and it was so depressing how every town viewed at altitude was covered in a pervasive pea soup of diesel smog.

The link between German industrial policy/protectionism and environmental disasters like diesel has been known for a while now but European cities in particular will be paying the price for a long time.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#59
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first link goes to a paywall for me. Is the fuel subsidized, or just taxed less? The tax on gasoline in Germany is roughly 100% at current prices.

Diesel is subsidized, as it is in other parts of Europe.

It is not, and is not in other parts of Europe.

The only fuel in Europe that you could class as 'subsidized' is so called 'red' diesel that is used in agriculture. You could run that in your regular diesel engine and it will work just fine but the coloring will stain the fuel delivery system and the tank in such a way that even many runs of regular fuel later it is detectable and this will get you a very heavy fine.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#60
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd also practically stop economic growth of areas outside large cities and slow down economic growth of the city itself. Many businesses would be ruined (and thus people working on them). Many people would loose their jobs. This is a very backwards approach. Why don't we destroy our cities that have replaced the beautiful nature that used to be there instead of them?

A city ban on cars would effect areas outside of cities?

Yes, of course. People from outside the city come to the city by car to buy goods and offer their services because mass transit is not available or not practical. It's impossible to make mass transit practical for everyone.
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