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What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

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Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#171

Post by fsloth »

ensiferum wrote: post #157
fsloth wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What can a person do to prepare for climate change?" If global climate goes haywire, I would guess grain prices are first to go up, leading to instability in the poorest areas (qualitatively, the price of food seems to be related to regional instability). On the short term I would guess the best guess is to have enough money to buy food, and live somewhere where there are strong governments that will mitigate proble…

You mean when

No, it's still if. Climate scientists are not seers. It's an if with bloody lot of concerning data points and estimates. If should be good enough to take action.

Currently we are running a global empirical experiment on what happens when we increase CO2 in the atmoshpere, and no one has any conclusive answer what will actually happen, given that Earht's weather is a highly complex dynamical system.

Will the clathrate gun explode? What happens then? Who knows! Roll the dice, enjoy the show.

Yeah, when we get to when it's too late.

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#172

Post by fsloth »

rmetzler wrote: post #155
a_imho wrote: post #148

Assuming we need to worry about climate change in the short term, what are the best mitigations on individual level? What can a person do to prepare for climate change? Move somewhere less affected? Hoard money/resources?

Walk or bike to your workplace instead of taking the car. Use public transportation. Oh, sorry, I misread what you asked about. You don't want to do something against climate change, you just want to mitigate the effects on you. Best thing is to avoid all those people who will migrate because it doesn't rain anymore in their place so they have to starve because of bad harvests.

You presume a person does not already do those things.

Doing the right thing now, and preparing for the worst just in case are not mutually exclusive (a smart person can have more than one plan going at a time).

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#173

Post by pulisse »

a_imho wrote: post #148

Assuming we need to worry about climate change in the short term, what are the best mitigations on individual level? What can a person do to prepare for climate change? Move somewhere less affected? Hoard money/resources?

It's a collective action problem. Mitigation on an individual level isn't meaningful.

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#174

Post by netzone »

codecamper wrote: post #143
username223 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like we keep discovering new positive feedback loops for global warming. Less ice means less reflection. Warmer arctic means more methane from permafrost. Desertification means less carbon capture. There was a recent article in Scientific American about likely changes in cloud formation from AGW. Some clouds reflect sun (cooling), while others trap heat (warming). Guess which are likely to increase? I doubt…

I'm of the opinion that all of life on Earth evolved over a long period of time to match the more or less steady state environment. When you go and disturb that steady state by say releasing a million years worth of carbon sequestration over a century, you destabilize the whole thing. Like a top spinning it all of a sudden collapses. And then humans realize that we were really just along for the ride & do not have a…

But from that point of view - aren't you underestimating Earths ability to adapt? Or overestimating the power Humans have over Earth.

What if Human technological advancement is Earths plan to regulate itself?

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#175

Post by chr1 »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #79

Too bad we can't create a dyson sphere that we could partially close to limit sun exposure enough to refreeze parts of the planet as needed and also use the sphere to power everything on earth.

There are easier methods to control the climate. E.g solar updraft towers can be used to create cloud cover, and to increase convection in the atmosphere.

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#176

Post by lucasverra »

Larrikin wrote: post #48
dsacco wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I host over 30TB of excellent climate date here: https://mirrors.sorengard.com/azimuth . These datasets were collected from various government agencies as part of a larger collaboration with John Baez and a couple of other scientists from the Azimuth Climate Data Project: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/azimuth_backup_project/ My server has a 1Gbps connection and can support sustained downloads of very large files. Unf…

Self hosting is important, but it seems like the wide disimmenation of this data would be helped by also making it available in torrent form as well.

let me know if this gets torrented i could seed it ad infinitum

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#177

Post by jschwartzi »

ThomPete wrote: post #165
andygates wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There really aren't 'both sides' to this. There's as much scientific controversy as there is over gravity or evolution. The deniers used to deny there was change ("it's cycles!"). Then they denied it was humans (it really is, attribution is getting good). They're denying it's bad ("CO2 is plant food!"); and once things get really in train, they'll be denying ever being warned by those mean old scientists.

Yes there really are and not just two but many. Don't take my word for it, here are the latest numbers from the IPCC http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg2/index.php?idp=29 I don't know about you but I see a range, a wide range. It IS cycles, it's always been cycles historically and the climate is always changing. http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/faq-6-1.... The discussion is not whether humans hav…

They said New York would be under water by now, so we took steps back then to limit emissions, and that never came to pass.

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#178

Post by kikimaru »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #110
delbel wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bitcoin

Oh please bitcoin doesn’t even approach the carbon emissions of the US military. Nobody ever points that out.

It's certainly not helping to add another, growing source of heat/electricity to the mix.

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#179

Post by IntronExon »

gaius wrote: post #125
WhitneyLand wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the problem really not knowing? Because even you don’t know, is it not enough that virtually all credible scientists are warning us of the very bad things we are at risk of? I know you are not debating the issue, but to me one of the most interesting questions is why do people deny this even when they have no vested interest? One obvious answer is that it’s become a party platform issue and those that do have an i…

is it not enough that virtually all credible scientists are warning us of the very bad things we are at risk of? The public perception is that science keeps warning of imminent disasters that keep not happening. Climate profiteers like Al Gore have totally undermined the credibility of science.

I would posit that if Al Gore is all it took for science to have its credibility undermined in your eyes, you don’t actually know what science is, how it works, or much about the issues at hand.

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#180

Post by ThomPete »

jschwartzi wrote: post #177
ThomPete wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there really are and not just two but many. Don't take my word for it, here are the latest numbers from the IPCC http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg2/index.php?idp=29 I don't know about you but I see a range, a wide range. It IS cycles, it's always been cycles historically and the climate is always changing. http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/faq-6-1.... The discussion is not whether humans hav…

They said New York would be under water by now, so we took steps back then to limit emissions, and that never came to pass.

Ok, can you provide any sources for that claim?
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