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The Teens Will Save Us

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Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The point is not that you can win pitched battles against a professional army with all its ordinance as a ragtag citizens’ militia with small arms. The point is that you can fight. You can bleed them. When they come patrolling through your neighborhood, you may be able to take a couple of the fuckers with you. You might even be able to run away and do it again. Theoretically, you wouldn’t be alone and they couldn’t…

This is not how you win lasting change. This is how you turn your country into hell. One person should never have the power to do this; they should have to be able to win the hearts and minds of others to impose their will on the world. Movement in this direction is always preferable. Edit: When you’re using insurgent violence to try to force the world around you to change into what you desire, in which sense are you…

There's an article with a similar issue to this that just hit the front page, and it mentions the "paradox of tolerance" or "Popper's Paradox". Namely, if you are tolerant of intolerance, the intolerance will win out and the tolerance will disappear. If you give excessive freedom to propagate tyranny, tyranny will take over, thereby destroying all freedom. For this reason, force is sometimes necessary to stop force. Or, to use the colloquialism, fight fire with fire. Fight firepower with firepower.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#52

First they came for the guns. An unarmed populace is powerless against an abusive government. America was founded because we wanted more liberty. And for many years, we understood that increased liberty came with increased responsability and risk. People now seem to have forgotten that. If you want to remain free, it will be hard. Sometimes there will even be bloodshed. I mourn for the students killed, as I mourn for…

Your AR-15 is not going to defend you against a drone strike. The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable, and the entire notion comes from an era long before tanks and missiles and nuclear bombs made the entire concept ridiculous. If you want to fight an abusive government you do it through the power of an organized populace. You can’t force an entire nation to live a…

Heey that's what King George of England thought. It's actually a good description of much of the revolutionary war: "As the British retraced their 16-mile journey, their lines were constantly beset by Patriot marksmen firing at them Indian-style from behind trees, rocks, and stone walls. At Lexington, Captain Parker’s militia had its revenge, killing several British soldiers as the Red Coats hastily marched through his town. By the time the British finally reached the safety of Boston, nearly 300 British soldiers had been killed, wounded, or were missing in action. The Patriots suffered fewer than 100 casualties." "The American Revolution Begins", History.com, 19 April 2009. http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-american-revo.... Another example is found in Morgan's Riflemen, who famously used guerrilla tactics to disrupt supply lines and pick off British targets. If you want a newer example, see the Vietnam War. With relatively little backing, a relatively small force of Viet Cong fought the US to a standstill. I would postulate that this is due to a relatively simple fact: the surface area for an enemy to assault is directly grows exponentially as a function of the size. Don't believe this? Hear me out. As a guerilla force, I would be fairly independent. I can replace leaders with minimal interruption, march on my stomach rather than dealing with complicated supply lines, have little bureaucratic infrastructure, and am not bound by the rules of a nation (those of warfare and others). As a country, however, I have many more difficulties. Not only do I have the above issues, but I also have to navigate complicated foreign policy. What if the guerrillas gain the support of a foreign power (e.g. the US during Revolutionary War from France; Viet Cong from China and Russia during Vietnam War)? How to I keep from indirectly attacking one of their allies? The Korean War is an example of this: fought to a standstill with an eventual "resolution" of splitting the territory. This is for a simple reason: US-Soviet tensions meant neither side wanted to use a nuclear option, literally or metaphorically, because they feared excessively provoking the other side.

In conclusion, guerrillas are bound by none of these rules. This means that yes, a small force with weapons can defeat that of a government, even if greatly outnumbered. Our country's founders, having just taken advantage of this fact, wanted to protect it just in case a tyrant took over. Jefferson tells us that "when a government becomes destructive of these ends [securing the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness], it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it". The second amendment prefaces the right to bear arms with the statement, "...being necessary to the security of a free State...". This is important: FREE state. A tyrant has no such need, and this is for good reason: a militia is composed of citizens, not enlisted military. This means it is under much less direct control of the government. This security is against a tyrant just as much as a foreign body. This security is to secure the "free" part of that statement, not just a nation's borders and foreign policy. This security is to secure our freedom.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#53
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your AR-15 is not going to defend you against a drone strike. The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable, and the entire notion comes from an era long before tanks and missiles and nuclear bombs made the entire concept ridiculous. If you want to fight an abusive government you do it through the power of an organized populace. You can’t force an entire nation to live a…

Wonder how long the drone thing will still be an advantage? Give it a few decades, and military type robots could become a common thing for hobbyists to own, especially in a place like the US where almost anything seems to go as far as private ownership is concerned. Or they could end up getting hacked.

You could theoretically build something like this pretty easily... ISIS is already building their own drones; only makes sense they will at some point arm those drones.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mexican drug cartels wouldn’t exist if we’d have established a system that doesn’t give them financial incentives to. These problems are fundamentally always an issue of the underlying social systems that bring them into being. You cannot shoot them away.

I'm not concerned about what brought the cartels to existence, the question applies to any enemy force, replace "Mexican Cartels" with "Nazis" if you wish Explain to me how you're supposed to deal with Nazis, or other invading armed force using "Arguments, beliefs, and convictions"

Or for that matter, explain how a 60 year, without the money to relocate, old in a suburb filled with crime and essentially abandoned by the police is going to defend himself against pickpockets and robbers.

"The police should ...."

Yeah, but the police hasn't, for decades. During those decades the government has constantly moved to further defund the police, not the opposite. So sorry, no.

And yeah, I get it, for the rich in central cities who can isolate themselves on a whim and move houses when they want to, guns are a serious nuisance.

For the poor in a weak position, the fact that 1/10 of the victims are armed with guns is the one thing that defends them. And you personally don't have to participate.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#55
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonder how long the drone thing will still be an advantage? Give it a few decades, and military type robots could become a common thing for hobbyists to own, especially in a place like the US where almost anything seems to go as far as private ownership is concerned. Or they could end up getting hacked.

You could theoretically build something like this pretty easily... ISIS is already building their own drones; only makes sense they will at some point arm those drones.

They already have

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/43qbbw/russia-say...

Thankfully, not very effectively.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#56

First they came for the guns. An unarmed populace is powerless against an abusive government. America was founded because we wanted more liberty. And for many years, we understood that increased liberty came with increased responsability and risk. People now seem to have forgotten that. If you want to remain free, it will be hard. Sometimes there will even be bloodshed. I mourn for the students killed, as I mourn for…

It's not about the government, it's about the oligarchs. The US governmemt is a puppet, and the ventriloquist are the oligarchs. I see what you're saying, but I suspect that the oligarchs that actually run the US do not like an armed populace.

Actually, I'm sure some do... like the lobbyists for gun manufacturers and arms dealers in the NRA and Washington.

Some people make a LOT of money from guns/weapon sales.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#57
post #13

I am staggered - and I repeat - staggered teens in the US are not doing more on this issue, especially now they have this platform. If every single 14-17 year old across the entire country banded together they could fix this once and for all by the next election. With social and the internet it's not even hard. Step 1: All those teens vow to vote the day they turn 18 and forever after - that's tens of millions of vot…

That's a horrible and dishonest plan

What's dishonest about it?

It's extremely up-front and transparent, the opposite of dishonest.

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