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The Teens Will Save Us

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Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#11

Post by rvo »

maxerickson wrote: post #7
rvo wrote: post #4

This sounds similar to a real experiment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave_(experiment) There is an amazing movie based on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wave_(2008_film) > While the adults are complacent, jaded, and disparaged, teenagers are ignited, spirited, and take no prisoners. ... Do not get in their way: they will crush you. This is scary. Do we expect violence? Also, aren't millennials mor…

Most current teenagers aren't Millenials.

Ah, good point. So this will be a generational clash...

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#12

Post by John_KZ »

No they won't. My first though reading the article was "What kind of asshole does that". It's not a scientific experiment, it's more of a vice. Students aren't your labrats. And modern fascism doesn't work like this. They don't need to report what they see, just to carry this camera with them at all times and agree to data mining. Their rebellious passion is misdirected to meaningless causes like lgbtbbq++, women ratios in videogames and forcing starving women to take off the hijabs, as if that'll change anything. Teens born in the 2000s are probably the most brainwashed generation so far, not because of some innate characteristic they have, but because of the power we gave to corporate giants to invade our homes and brainwash our kids.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#13

Post by grecy »

I am staggered - and I repeat - staggered teens in the US are not doing more on this issue, especially now they have this platform.

If every single 14-17 year old across the entire country banded together they could fix this once and for all by the next election. With social and the internet it's not even hard.

Step 1: All those teens vow to vote the day they turn 18 and forever after - that's tens of millions of votes per election, easily enough to change the outcome.

Step 2: It doesn't matter if the candidate is Republican or Democrat (this issue is more important) - if gun reform is not their number 1 issue they will be voted against.

Step 3: Make a positive change for their country, forever.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#14

Post by keiferski »

foolrush wrote: post #3
wemdyjreichert wrote: post #2

First they came for the guns. An unarmed populace is powerless against an abusive government. America was founded because we wanted more liberty. And for many years, we understood that increased liberty came with increased responsability and risk. People now seem to have forgotten that. If you want to remain free, it will be hard. Sometimes there will even be bloodshed. I mourn for the students killed, as I mourn for…

> "“But we’re supposed to protect against tyranny! I need the same weapons the military would come at me with!” Dude. You know where I can get an Apache helicopter and a Paladin?! Hook a girl up! Seriously, though, do you really think you’d be able to hold off the government with an individual level weapon? Because you wouldn’t. One grenade, and you’re toast. Don’t have these illusions of standing up to the governmen…

I don’t have a particularly strong opinion on guns either way, but this kind of argument never made sense to me. The continual quagmire that is Iraq and Afghanistan for Coalition Forces almost immediately disproves it. The objective isn’t to “win” in a conventional war, it’s to be a perpetual resistance. See Napoleon’s misadventures in Spain (the source of the term ‘guerilla’) for a pre-modern example.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#15

Post by smashingfiasco »

wemdyjreichert wrote: post #2

First they came for the guns. An unarmed populace is powerless against an abusive government. America was founded because we wanted more liberty. And for many years, we understood that increased liberty came with increased responsability and risk. People now seem to have forgotten that. If you want to remain free, it will be hard. Sometimes there will even be bloodshed. I mourn for the students killed, as I mourn for…

It's not about the government, it's about the oligarchs. The US governmemt is a puppet, and the ventriloquist are the oligarchs.

I see what you're saying, but I suspect that the oligarchs that actually run the US do not like an armed populace.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#16

Post by humanrebar »

aalleavitch wrote: post #9
wemdyjreichert wrote: post #2

First they came for the guns. An unarmed populace is powerless against an abusive government. America was founded because we wanted more liberty. And for many years, we understood that increased liberty came with increased responsability and risk. People now seem to have forgotten that. If you want to remain free, it will be hard. Sometimes there will even be bloodshed. I mourn for the students killed, as I mourn for…

Your AR-15 is not going to defend you against a drone strike. The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable, and the entire notion comes from an era long before tanks and missiles and nuclear bombs made the entire concept ridiculous. If you want to fight an abusive government you do it through the power of an organized populace. You can’t force an entire nation to live a…

> The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable...

You could fight a single knucklehead who thinks a badge means he can get away with theft, rape, or murder.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#17

Post by aalleavitch »

foxhound6 wrote: post #10
foolrush wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "“But we’re supposed to protect against tyranny! I need the same weapons the military would come at me with!” Dude. You know where I can get an Apache helicopter and a Paladin?! Hook a girl up! Seriously, though, do you really think you’d be able to hold off the government with an individual level weapon? Because you wouldn’t. One grenade, and you’re toast. Don’t have these illusions of standing up to the governmen…

Sounds like the author isn't familiar with the history of Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq.

You mean places that all prove that weapons mean fuck-all compared to actual deep and lasting social change in fighting corrupt governments and belief systems?

The only way to actually defend yourself against a corrupt government is to change hearts and minds.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#18

Post by Zpalmtree »

aalleavitch wrote: post #9
wemdyjreichert wrote: post #2

First they came for the guns. An unarmed populace is powerless against an abusive government. America was founded because we wanted more liberty. And for many years, we understood that increased liberty came with increased responsability and risk. People now seem to have forgotten that. If you want to remain free, it will be hard. Sometimes there will even be bloodshed. I mourn for the students killed, as I mourn for…

Your AR-15 is not going to defend you against a drone strike. The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable, and the entire notion comes from an era long before tanks and missiles and nuclear bombs made the entire concept ridiculous. If you want to fight an abusive government you do it through the power of an organized populace. You can’t force an entire nation to live a…

"The point is not that you can win pitched battles against a professional army with all its ordinance as a ragtag citizens’ militia with small arms. The point is that you can fight. You can bleed them. When they come patrolling through your neighborhood, you may be able to take a couple of the fuckers with you. You might even be able to run away and do it again. Theoretically, you wouldn’t be alone and they couldn’t engage in endless “manhunts” for everyone who resisted them. And they’d never feel safe; there could be a shooter behind any window. Of course, they could call in artillery and air support and level your neighborhood; sure. What would this get them? It would anger a lot of people when innocents died and play right into the hands of the rebels. It would also make a lot of the soldiers in that professional military seriously consider whether they were doing the right thing. Finally, it would simply kill people. No one wants to rule a nation of corpses.

The aim of a tyrant is to control, not to kill. What they want is to be able to have militarized police/gestapo point guns at people and cow them into submission to whatever dictates they might want to impose. If those people are instead waiting behind their doors and ready to shoot first when the jackbooted thugs come around, they’ve already failed. So the point is to fight. If you resist, you’re not being controlled, and you’re also undermining attempts to control others who can’t or won’t fight. You might die, of course. That’s why Patrick Henry said what he famously said, more or less. As long as people can resist, they can be free, and tyrants can never succeed. But when you’re talking about using swords and knives and clubs against modem military weapons, it actually becomes pointless, because you can’t bleed them at all. They’ll just shoot you with beanbags and rubber and water cannons and microwave guns. That’s why having guns is so important."

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#19

Post by [deleted] »

aalleavitch wrote: post #9
wemdyjreichert wrote: post #2

First they came for the guns. An unarmed populace is powerless against an abusive government. America was founded because we wanted more liberty. And for many years, we understood that increased liberty came with increased responsability and risk. People now seem to have forgotten that. If you want to remain free, it will be hard. Sometimes there will even be bloodshed. I mourn for the students killed, as I mourn for…

Your AR-15 is not going to defend you against a drone strike. The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable, and the entire notion comes from an era long before tanks and missiles and nuclear bombs made the entire concept ridiculous. If you want to fight an abusive government you do it through the power of an organized populace. You can’t force an entire nation to live a…

[deleted]

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#20

Post by raverbashing »

Ok, thought experiment time

What if instead of Senioritis this was a disease (a deadly one) and the action needed was vaccination/washing your hands/"magic incantation" before doing something?

On the other hand, what if this "totalitaran state" is pushing for something "cool and fun", I don't know, using Emacs (example). Because Of Course Emacs is the best editor, etc, etc (and since it's obvious this is not questioned - whoever questions this is shunned/alienated).

While the dangers of totalitarism are known (and see, we even have a name for this concept), the opposite, which might be anarchy(?), while it is individually an advantage collectively can be a disaster

I think people have been burned by one extreme and are maybe not aware of what lies on the other side (me included).

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