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The Teens Will Save Us

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Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#41

Post by humanrebar »

aalleavitch wrote: post #21
humanrebar wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable... You could fight a single knucklehead who thinks a badge means he can get away with theft, rape, or murder.

Or you could fight for a system that never gives him that badge in the first place. Guns solve short term problems. They don’t overturn tyranny. Arguments, beliefs, and convictions do that.

I think taking away the freedom of defense at the individual level is a long term problem.

I don't think we can prevent all violence beforehand. And I don't think we can prosecute all violence without creating some sort of police or surveillance state.

Given there will (should) be gaps in how violence is policed, we need to give upstanding citizens the ability to handle those gaps in justice in their own way. I'd rather people left the scene, handed over their wallet, recorded and published the incident, etc.

But as another commenter implied by bringing up Mexico, the "let the police handle it" is a bit of a privileged attitude. That isn't a trustworthy option for every American and it hasn't been a trustworthy option throughout American history.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#42

Post by legulere »

wemdyjreichert wrote: post #2

First they came for the guns. An unarmed populace is powerless against an abusive government. America was founded because we wanted more liberty. And for many years, we understood that increased liberty came with increased responsability and risk. People now seem to have forgotten that. If you want to remain free, it will be hard. Sometimes there will even be bloodshed. I mourn for the students killed, as I mourn for…

The liberty you are talking about here is handling guns irresponsibly. That's the only additional gun-related liberty Americans have compared to most other developed countries.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#43

Post by guelo »

adamrezich wrote: post #40
guelo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Critical thinking is becoming more and more discouraged, especially in educational settings, as outward expression of such is increasingly drowned out by overemotional responses. I don't think you have any evidence of this besides whatever media propaganda you might have been reading. As a teen's dad the teens I interact with are much more informed and aware than I remember from my gen-X era high school.

>I don't think you have any evidence of this besides whatever media propaganda you might have been reading. This is the most perfect sentence to immediately discredit anyone in political discussion today that I have ever seen. No matter what political perspective you have, you can say it and it magically works in your favor. I'll be keeping this in mind for future ironic use. Also, ironically, this statement shows co…

It would be amazing that you independently reached this conclusion through only your own observations when "people that disagree with us are irrational and emotional" is incredibly common propaganda that is everywhere.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#44

Post by orbitur »

adamrezich wrote: post #8

Young people are more willing to "rise up and fight The Man" than ever before, to be sure. The problem is, now that information is easier to spread instantaneously across the entire globe--and we carry devices that let us access this global information network in our pockets at all times--people are more prone to groupthink than ever before, and one's political beliefs are more directly shaped by social circumstances…

Your assertion of "slacktivism" seems in contradiction to the fact that more Americans are marching in the streets for various reasons in the last 10 years than in the preceding years of my life.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#45

Post by adamrezich »

orbitur wrote: post #44
adamrezich wrote: post #8

Young people are more willing to "rise up and fight The Man" than ever before, to be sure. The problem is, now that information is easier to spread instantaneously across the entire globe--and we carry devices that let us access this global information network in our pockets at all times--people are more prone to groupthink than ever before, and one's political beliefs are more directly shaped by social circumstances…

Your assertion of "slacktivism" seems in contradiction to the fact that more Americans are marching in the streets for various reasons in the last 10 years than in the preceding years of my life.

Yes, and what does this marching in the streets really accomplish? What does having a "March for Women" really get done in the greater scheme of things, aside from making everyone participating it and supporting it feel good about themselves? Same goes for the "March for Science" and other such "marches."

"Political protest" has become normalized to the point where the general populace is becoming increasingly numb to it, making the concept lose whatever effectiveness it once had, and it's gotten to the point where at least for me personally, I can't keep up with the "marches" anymore. What are we marching for this week? Anti-racism? Anti-sexism? Anti-homophobia? Anti-transphobia? Anti-2A? Anti-fascism? Anti-Nazi?

All this marching just seems very evocative of Two Minutes Hate at this point. Let the public get it out of their system and move on to some other issue next month. Rinse and repeat, keep the hysteria and fear up, keep the population subdued and angry and afraid and emotionally vulnerable. It's been working out well so far.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#46

Post by rocmcd »

Zpalmtree wrote: post #18
aalleavitch wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your AR-15 is not going to defend you against a drone strike. The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable, and the entire notion comes from an era long before tanks and missiles and nuclear bombs made the entire concept ridiculous. If you want to fight an abusive government you do it through the power of an organized populace. You can’t force an entire nation to live a…

"The point is not that you can win pitched battles against a professional army with all its ordinance as a ragtag citizens’ militia with small arms. The point is that you can fight. You can bleed them. When they come patrolling through your neighborhood, you may be able to take a couple of the fuckers with you. You might even be able to run away and do it again. Theoretically, you wouldn’t be alone and they couldn’t…

Not sure if this was your point, but your first paragraph is an accurate depiction of the War on Terror in Iraq and Afghanistan (and I'm sure plenty of other war-torn countries in the region). Despite the USA having military supremacy in nearly every way, there will probably be no end to the bloodshed for decades to come.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#47

Post by adamrezich »

guelo wrote: post #43
adamrezich wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think you have any evidence of this besides whatever media propaganda you might have been reading. This is the most perfect sentence to immediately discredit anyone in political discussion today that I have ever seen. No matter what political perspective you have, you can say it and it magically works in your favor. I'll be keeping this in mind for future ironic use. Also, ironically, this statement shows co…

It would be amazing that you independently reached this conclusion through only your own observations when "people that disagree with us are irrational and emotional" is incredibly common propaganda that is everywhere.

It would be amazing for anyone to reach any conclusion in this day and age through solely through their own observations with the infinite access to information we both literally have at our fingertips as I write this and you read it. None of this changes the fact that you seem to have zero interest in any sort of real discussion, preferring instead to shut down my entire perspective because of some ill-defined "propaganda," so I'm going to have to tap out here.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#48

Post by helthanatos »

grecy wrote: post #13

I am staggered - and I repeat - staggered teens in the US are not doing more on this issue, especially now they have this platform. If every single 14-17 year old across the entire country banded together they could fix this once and for all by the next election. With social and the internet it's not even hard. Step 1: All those teens vow to vote the day they turn 18 and forever after - that's tens of millions of vot…

That's a horrible and dishonest plan

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#49

Post by [deleted] »

rocmcd wrote: post #46
Zpalmtree wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The point is not that you can win pitched battles against a professional army with all its ordinance as a ragtag citizens’ militia with small arms. The point is that you can fight. You can bleed them. When they come patrolling through your neighborhood, you may be able to take a couple of the fuckers with you. You might even be able to run away and do it again. Theoretically, you wouldn’t be alone and they couldn’t…

Not sure if this was your point, but your first paragraph is an accurate depiction of the War on Terror in Iraq and Afghanistan (and I'm sure plenty of other war-torn countries in the region). Despite the USA having military supremacy in nearly every way, there will probably be no end to the bloodshed for decades to come.

[deleted]

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#50

Post by [deleted] »

rocmcd wrote: post #46
Zpalmtree wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The point is not that you can win pitched battles against a professional army with all its ordinance as a ragtag citizens’ militia with small arms. The point is that you can fight. You can bleed them. When they come patrolling through your neighborhood, you may be able to take a couple of the fuckers with you. You might even be able to run away and do it again. Theoretically, you wouldn’t be alone and they couldn’t…

Not sure if this was your point, but your first paragraph is an accurate depiction of the War on Terror in Iraq and Afghanistan (and I'm sure plenty of other war-torn countries in the region). Despite the USA having military supremacy in nearly every way, there will probably be no end to the bloodshed for decades to come.

[deleted]
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