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The Teens Will Save Us

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Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#21

Post by aalleavitch »

humanrebar wrote: post #16
aalleavitch wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your AR-15 is not going to defend you against a drone strike. The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable, and the entire notion comes from an era long before tanks and missiles and nuclear bombs made the entire concept ridiculous. If you want to fight an abusive government you do it through the power of an organized populace. You can’t force an entire nation to live a…

> The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable... You could fight a single knucklehead who thinks a badge means he can get away with theft, rape, or murder.

Or you could fight for a system that never gives him that badge in the first place.

Guns solve short term problems. They don’t overturn tyranny. Arguments, beliefs, and convictions do that.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#22

Post by foxhound6 »

aalleavitch wrote: post #17
foxhound6 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the author isn't familiar with the history of Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq.

You mean places that all prove that weapons mean fuck-all compared to actual deep and lasting social change in fighting corrupt governments and belief systems? The only way to actually defend yourself against a corrupt government is to change hearts and minds.

I was merely disproving the fact that a motivated population with rifles can't fight and (in the case of Vietnam) defeat the world's largest military. The jury is still out on Iraq/Afghanistan.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#23

Post by armenarmen »

aalleavitch wrote: post #9
wemdyjreichert wrote: post #2

First they came for the guns. An unarmed populace is powerless against an abusive government. America was founded because we wanted more liberty. And for many years, we understood that increased liberty came with increased responsability and risk. People now seem to have forgotten that. If you want to remain free, it will be hard. Sometimes there will even be bloodshed. I mourn for the students killed, as I mourn for…

Your AR-15 is not going to defend you against a drone strike. The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable, and the entire notion comes from an era long before tanks and missiles and nuclear bombs made the entire concept ridiculous. If you want to fight an abusive government you do it through the power of an organized populace. You can’t force an entire nation to live a…

dunno, illiterate poppy farmers in Afghanistan are doing pretty good with old Kalishnakovs

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#25

Post by aalleavitch »

Zpalmtree wrote: post #18
aalleavitch wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your AR-15 is not going to defend you against a drone strike. The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable, and the entire notion comes from an era long before tanks and missiles and nuclear bombs made the entire concept ridiculous. If you want to fight an abusive government you do it through the power of an organized populace. You can’t force an entire nation to live a…

"The point is not that you can win pitched battles against a professional army with all its ordinance as a ragtag citizens’ militia with small arms. The point is that you can fight. You can bleed them. When they come patrolling through your neighborhood, you may be able to take a couple of the fuckers with you. You might even be able to run away and do it again. Theoretically, you wouldn’t be alone and they couldn’t…

This is not how you win lasting change. This is how you turn your country into hell. One person should never have the power to do this; they should have to be able to win the hearts and minds of others to impose their will on the world. Movement in this direction is always preferable.

Edit: When you’re using insurgent violence to try to force the world around you to change into what you desire, in which sense are you not just as much of a tyrant?

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#26

Post by harryf »

aalleavitch wrote: post #9
wemdyjreichert wrote: post #2

First they came for the guns. An unarmed populace is powerless against an abusive government. America was founded because we wanted more liberty. And for many years, we understood that increased liberty came with increased responsability and risk. People now seem to have forgotten that. If you want to remain free, it will be hard. Sometimes there will even be bloodshed. I mourn for the students killed, as I mourn for…

Your AR-15 is not going to defend you against a drone strike. The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable, and the entire notion comes from an era long before tanks and missiles and nuclear bombs made the entire concept ridiculous. If you want to fight an abusive government you do it through the power of an organized populace. You can’t force an entire nation to live a…

To me the most powerful balance of this era is represented by apps like http://buycott.com - consumer activism, being smart about where you spend your money. The potential is huge although awareness and probably cynicism mean it hasn't yet become mainstream.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#27

Post by pmoriarty »

rvo wrote: post #4

This sounds similar to a real experiment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave_(experiment) There is an amazing movie based on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wave_(2008_film) > While the adults are complacent, jaded, and disparaged, teenagers are ignited, spirited, and take no prisoners. ... Do not get in their way: they will crush you. This is scary. Do we expect violence? Also, aren't millennials mor…

Also see the 1981 film The Wave[1], the Stanford prison experiment[2], and Jane Elliott's[3] blue-eyes/brown-eyes experiment[4].

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wave_%28TV_special%29

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

[3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Elliott

[4] - http://tkam.wikia.com/wiki/Jane_Elliot_-_Brown_eyes,_Blue_ey...

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#28

Post by aalleavitch »

armenarmen wrote: post #23
aalleavitch wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your AR-15 is not going to defend you against a drone strike. The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable, and the entire notion comes from an era long before tanks and missiles and nuclear bombs made the entire concept ridiculous. If you want to fight an abusive government you do it through the power of an organized populace. You can’t force an entire nation to live a…

dunno, illiterate poppy farmers in Afghanistan are doing pretty good with old Kalishnakovs

Because it’s not the Kalishnakovs doing the work here; it’s the beliefs and convictions of the people holding them and the sway that those beliefs have on the people around them.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#29

Post by raverbashing »

aalleavitch wrote: post #21
humanrebar wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable... You could fight a single knucklehead who thinks a badge means he can get away with theft, rape, or murder.

Or you could fight for a system that never gives him that badge in the first place. Guns solve short term problems. They don’t overturn tyranny. Arguments, beliefs, and convictions do that.

> They don’t overturn tyranny. Arguments, beliefs, and convictions do that.

Try that against the Mexican drug cartels and see how that goes

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#30

Post by dwaltrip »

aalleavitch wrote: post #25
Zpalmtree wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The point is not that you can win pitched battles against a professional army with all its ordinance as a ragtag citizens’ militia with small arms. The point is that you can fight. You can bleed them. When they come patrolling through your neighborhood, you may be able to take a couple of the fuckers with you. You might even be able to run away and do it again. Theoretically, you wouldn’t be alone and they couldn’t…

This is not how you win lasting change. This is how you turn your country into hell. One person should never have the power to do this; they should have to be able to win the hearts and minds of others to impose their will on the world. Movement in this direction is always preferable. Edit: When you’re using insurgent violence to try to force the world around you to change into what you desire, in which sense are you…

The comment above is talking about a last resort defense against the country going full on brutal totalitarianism.

Not saying I agree with it, but it doesn't sound like you were responding to that.

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