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Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

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Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#161

Post by londons_explore »

coldtea wrote: post #145
technofiend wrote: post #10

The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. That's just one country albeit one of the world's largest. Still I think we're over due for much more agressive action. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/30/england-...

> The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. Still totally insignificant. A small plastic product packaging, of the kind everything comes in, has more plastic than 200 bags. https://goo.gl/images/cBp3zn Like TSA "security theater", this is "environmental theater".

It's only theater if you measure by kilograms.

If you instead care about "items" or "visual cleanness of the river that all the plastic gets blown into", it's a very different matter.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#162

Post by craftyguy »

wnissen wrote: post #144
craftyguy wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Taiwan a couple years ago doing a beach cleanup, plastics (bags, etc) most definitely make it into the water there.

Right, but most of them are getting landfilled at the worst, right? As I understand it, the majority of the garbage is coming from countries that have no commercial-scale waste disposal except ocean dumping.

Most != all, and it doesn't take much plastic to really mess up an ecosystem.

Specifically in north Taiwan's case, I recall learning that a portion of the trash in the ocean comes from China via ocean currents, but there's still a significant amount coming from Taiwan via accidents (trash spilling, vessels losing it, etc)

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#163

Post by BinaryIdiot »

wnissen wrote: post #137
autokad wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you ever had your milk go splat on the pavement after it went right through your plastic bag, then yeah, its not enough.

Plastic bags hold about 20-30 pounds, how much milk are we talking?

Depends on the type of plastic bag. If we're talking Walmart grade plastic bags then those are not going to hold 20 pounds. You'd be lucky to hold 10 pounds with those terrible bags. Safeway bags, thought? Those are crazy thick and strong and could easily handle 30 pounds.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#164

Post by zachrose »

coldtea wrote: post #145
technofiend wrote: post #10

The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. That's just one country albeit one of the world's largest. Still I think we're over due for much more agressive action. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/30/england-...

> The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. Still totally insignificant. A small plastic product packaging, of the kind everything comes in, has more plastic than 200 bags. https://goo.gl/images/cBp3zn Like TSA "security theater", this is "environmental theater".

So wait, shouldn’t your argument be that the plastic bag bans don’t do enough and therefore we should ban/price other kinds of plastic too?

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#165

Post by londons_explore »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #57
mino wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was a wrong decision: rather than imposing a small fee, they should have banned the sale of non-biodegradable bags altogether. Italy is doing so since 2011, and it seems to be working just fine.

> rather than imposing a small fee, they should have banned the sale of non-biodegradable bags altogether Fines allow businesses to judge the merits (and timeline) of shifting according to their needs. Bans force everyone to shift simultaneously. Ceteris paribus , bans promote incumbents while taxes facilitate new entrants. (TL; DR Britain versus Italy's economy.)

A ban is effectively an infinite fee.

A small fee seems like a good halfway point between having no fee and an infinite fee.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#166

Post by always_good »

wnissen wrote: post #144
craftyguy wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Taiwan a couple years ago doing a beach cleanup, plastics (bags, etc) most definitely make it into the water there.

Right, but most of them are getting landfilled at the worst, right? As I understand it, the majority of the garbage is coming from countries that have no commercial-scale waste disposal except ocean dumping.

Well, if we're guessing, surely developed nations produce an order of magnitude more waste in general. Just like the average American consumers more energy than everyone else.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#167

Post by illegalsmile »

devit wrote: post #99
rubenbe wrote: post #6

I recently bought a set of reusable stainless steel straws. They were expensive, but have a timeless "design" and have a build quality that gives the impression they will last a lifetime. When dirty I throw them in the dishwasher with the other cutleries. They don't take any space in the washer so cleaning them is essentially "free". (Making abstraction of the ecological cost of a dishwasher.)

Why use a straw at all instead of just drinking directly from a drinking glass, thus avoiding the need to wash and manage the straws? Also, glass is a better material than steel for food applications, and glass straws exist, so they are probably a better choice (unless there's a significant chance of breakage like giving them to small children).

That's my question too, why is the straw in every day life necessary?

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#168

Post by grasshopperpurp »

briandear wrote: post #146
maym86 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just access to well maintained public toilets.

Perhaps the homeless could be given jobs cleaning the toilets?

Fort Worth and Albuquerque give them jobs to clean up streets. In Fort Worth, they pay $10 per hour and provide housing. This would be similar - and a good idea, I think.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#170

Post by twostoned »

dalbasal wrote: post #142

You got to be at least a little cynical about 2030 date for something like this. Why not 2020. This isn't electric cars. We don't need to think about cost curves or 10 year product cycles.

I noticed this too, it almost makes it seem redundant. 11.5 years from now we're going to improve something. Oh yeah? Imagine if someone told you they planned to quit smoking in 10 years? haha ok
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