Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

kapwing.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

521–530 of 666 posts

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#521

Post by Jean-Philipe »

alkonaut wrote: post #191

Kids who grew up in an environment where anonymous interaction is the norm (such as kids who have anonymous social chats at school, or do in-game chats etc) have grown so accustomed to it that I don't think they even see it as sexist, racist, bullying etc. Most would probably never say any of this to someones' face, not out of fear of consequences but simply because they know better. Yet in anonymous contact they don…

The female identity has been harassed while the male identity was treated with respect. I don't see how anonymity has anything to do with it, the visitors were equally anonymous in both cases.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#522

Post by bozniv »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #263
nukeop wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and that true anonymity doesn't exist either Yes it does, you are mistaken. An IP does not identify you if it's a proxy server or a VPN or a Tor node. All existing tracking methods can be fooled.

Only for as long as nobody really cares. OPSEC is hard. Even people for whom it's a matter of life and death fail at it routinely. Angry trolls even more so. Your first message may be anonymous, but by your third message there's a good chance someone dedicated could find you if they cared enough.

> Only for as long as nobody really cares.

In case of angry trolls, that's usually quite a long time.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#523

Post by ignoramceisblis »

AlexTTT wrote: post #121
jakobegger wrote: post #101

Amazing. The author spends a lot of time to tell us a very convincing story how sexism affects people in our industry, and the Hacker News thread is full of people rationalizing it. - it's only because people think you're a bot - it's because of your target audience - it's because chat widgets are annoying - you don't really have enough data to make any conclusions How much will it take to convince the average HN rea…

"Sexism is actually everywhere" is an extremely strong statement. Such a strong statement requires an extraordinary amount of work (going far beyond mere observations) to be proven. I personally would be very interested to know why "Julia" is being insulted much more than "Eric", but saying "this is because of sexism" is no better than saying that "the sun is bright because it shines".

I think it is mindnumbing that your (very reasonable) questioning of the validity of such a strong and all-encompassing statement is being dismissed, downvoted.

To some extent, I would take it with a grain of salt. Anonymous internet accounts can be fabricated and controlled by groups or individuals. This is also something that should be taught, actively.

Do not let apparent social pressure have you concede rationality, truth.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#524

Post by AnimalMuppet »

scott_s wrote: post #375
geezerjay wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, society tolerating those vocal trolls does mean that society is sexist. Actually that just means society tolerates trolls. You're showing your bias by jumping to the conclusion that everything is sexism or that somehow antisocial and immature people only target women. Furthermore, western society actually holds in high regard concepts such as frer speech, which covers idiots being able to say idiotic things.

These vocal trolls are being sexist. A society that tolerates sexist trolls tolerates sexism. A society that tolerates sexism is a sexist society.

A society that tolerates sexist trolls because it values free speech is not being sexist, it's being pro-free-speech.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#525

Post by ignoramceisblis »

Slansitartop wrote: post #476
hutzlibu wrote: post #184

I don't think you can generalize the results at all, when the product was a "meme generator" for which the target group is reddit, 4chan, etc. Because inside those groups are some really depressed, miserable and angry lonley single male (teens) who are horny, but got mostly rejection (or beeing ignored) from women in real life ... where they would not even dare to talk to them. But so they built up great anger becaus…

> I don't think you can generalize the results at all, when the product was a "meme generator" for which the target group is reddit, 4chan, etc. So we're selecting a socially maladjusted population here, then trying to generalize to society as a whole?

That is exactly what many of the commentors in this discussion are attempting to do, taking cues from the article.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#526

Post by bozniv »

rkangel wrote: post #310
verroq wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Rude people are sexist" or "Sexist people are rude" is about the only conclusion you can draw here (maybe not even that, correlation != causation etc etc) It doesn't even come close to showing how "sexism is everywhere". For all we know the sample could be entirely edgy 12 year olds. Tell me again how this self-admittedly "non-rigorous scientific study" proves "sexism is everywhere"? It could easily be that more att…

The conclusion you can draw here is that being female will makes you the target of abuse that you wouldn't receive as another gender (or species in the case of this article). Other people have provided data that supports the case that this is a widespread problem that faces female tech-people (and even that is a subset of a larger problem). To take it to extremes, that abuse could entirely be the fault of one single…

I'm not sure you can conclude from accounts on sexual harassment alone that being a female tech-person is a less pleasant experience than being a male tech-person. Women do experience more sexual harassment in tech industry than men but they do not experience more harassment or workplace bullying overall. The harassment that is not of sexual nature is not necessarily less upsetting than sexual harassment. In fact the opposite might be the case: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bullies-work/workplace-bu...

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#527

Post by lagadu »

optimuspaul wrote: post #370
Belphemur wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need also to compare the user base ... The user's age on HN is in the ballpark of 25-40 years old, as it's a tech website. The website in OP is a meme generator, and I'm sure the ballpack would be 12-18 years. Now considering this, I agree with alkonaut.

> The user's age on HN is in the ballpark of 25-40 years old, as it's a tech website. Oh no, I'm aging out, I'm 41. I'm curious why you put 40 as the top end there. If I were going to guess at an age range for this site I go lower and much higher.

Woah there granddad, how did you get on the computer ;)

I imagine he meant in the normal distribution sense, where 25-40 comprises ~70% of the userbase; entirely anecdotal but I get the feeling that's a reasonable assessment.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#528

Post by thaumaturgy »

dandare wrote: post #271
thaumaturgy wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so glad someone on HN is here to enforce rigorous standards when it comes to this topic, in particular. Because there have been multiple accounts of bad behavior, both subtle and not-subtle, at tech conferences ( https://shift.newco.co/what-its-like-to-be-a-woman-at-a-tech... , https://blog.juliaferraioli.com/2014/08/do-you-even.html ), but those aren't studies, they're just isolated experiences, so we can ignor…

The only thing I disagree with is the assertion that women in tech (STEM?) have somehow different/worse experience than women in general. Or at least I can not imagine why that would be the case - are educated and intelligent men more sexist than the average Joe? I think the main difference is that in tech we are much more open to acknowledge the problem and discuss it.

> The only thing I disagree with is the assertion that women in tech (STEM?) have somehow different/worse experience than women in general.

I'm not sure that's a statement I'd make. I don't think I know enough to say that.

It's tempting to let myself get nerd-sniped into a longer, less productive discussion comparing different fields and pontificating on different possible causes, but then I'd be making the same mistake as so many other people here.

What we really need in these conversations is fewer people like James DaMore writing dissertations on the subject and more people saying, "hey guys, stop being dumb ass holes."

This is a problem that is better resolved by calling out socially repugnant behavior rather than dissecting it.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#530

Post by AnimalMuppet »

mikeash wrote: post #404
jakobegger wrote: post #101

Amazing. The author spends a lot of time to tell us a very convincing story how sexism affects people in our industry, and the Hacker News thread is full of people rationalizing it. - it's only because people think you're a bot - it's because of your target audience - it's because chat widgets are annoying - you don't really have enough data to make any conclusions How much will it take to convince the average HN rea…

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” - Upton Sinclair The average HN reader is a huge beneficiary of sexism. Most people do not have the mental fortitude to accept that a decent chunk of their good fortune is due to something like this.

> The average HN reader is a huge beneficiary of sexism.

I dispute that statement. (I will admit that you can find some possible benefit to the majority from sexism. "Huge" is a much larger claim, though.)

Post reply on HN