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Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

kapwing.com

191–200 of 666 posts

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#191
Kids who grew up in an environment where anonymous interaction is the norm (such as kids who have anonymous social chats at school, or do in-game chats etc) have grown so accustomed to it that I don't think they even see it as sexist, racist, bullying etc. Most would probably never say any of this to someones' face, not out of fear of consequences but simply because they know better. Yet in anonymous contact they don't think twice about it. It also doesn't help that these interactions are ephemeral. Tomorrow you play against someone else, or chat with a different person. What you said yesterday doesn't matter, you may not even be the same persona. So as far as human relatoins go, they know that the chat interaction isn't a human relation, it's a short anonymous interaction.

So I think the important thing for us parents to convey is that being an asshat isn't ok just because you are anonymous. It might help to explain that everthing typed anywhere online is usually recorded forever, and that true anonymity doesn't exist either. That, and of course that real people deserved being treated like real people, even when anonymous.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#192
post #105

Amazing. The author spends a lot of time to tell us a very convincing story how sexism affects people in our industry, and the Hacker News thread is full of people rationalizing it. - it's only because people think you're a bot - it's because of your target audience - it's because chat widgets are annoying - you don't really have enough data to make any conclusions How much will it take to convince the average HN rea…

"Rude people are sexist" or "Sexist people are rude" is about the only conclusion you can draw here (maybe not even that, correlation != causation etc etc) It doesn't even come close to showing how "sexism is everywhere". For all we know the sample could be entirely edgy 12 year olds. Tell me again how this self-admittedly "non-rigorous scientific study" proves "sexism is everywhere"? It could easily be that more att…

This one thing is obviously not the smoking gun. But in context of the thousands of other similar things it becomes impossible not to see a pattern.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably new to HN, so you might not have seen all the other stories about sexism posted in the last year or so. A single story like this doesn't prove anything, but the flood of stories just like that paint a pretty clear picture. At some point you can no longer say: "This is an isolated incident".

The plural of anecdote is not data. We need real stats about this because individuals complaining vastly outweighs the silent remaining ones. There are enough murders every day to cover the front page of hacker news with a story about each one. It doesn't mean murder is a rampant problem in our society.

We have real stats. Hundreds, if not thousands of studies. But those get this identical reaction.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#194
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another surprised guy I'm aware people post bad things on the internet but I wasn't aware of the degree of difference between having a male and female picture as I haven't tried that.

Surprised here also (I'm a guy in my 40s; 25 years online) - I know there are people online with no manners, and I go out of my way not to interact with them, but the sheer level of abuse shown here (and sadly elsewhere too) constantly amazes and upsets me. The obvious thing to do is to remove anonymity from the Internet. However then what do we do about peoples rights[1] to free speech? --- [1] Not every country giv…

Facebook is a fantastic example that lack of anonymity does not solve anything. It takes 5 seconds to find groups where people openly say that all women are bad, immigrants should be shot, black people are responsible for all the crime etc etc......even though all of their friends and family can see those posts. It solves nothing.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#195

Amazing. The author spends a lot of time to tell us a very convincing story how sexism affects people in our industry, and the Hacker News thread is full of people rationalizing it. - it's only because people think you're a bot - it's because of your target audience - it's because chat widgets are annoying - you don't really have enough data to make any conclusions How much will it take to convince the average HN rea…

I'm strongly convinced that the 'average HN reader' is well aware of this (sexism) problem.

I don't rationalizing it, but I believe, the points you mention are important. And in addition, yes there are idiots on the internet. And not all problems have a easy wrong solution...

The blog post is (for me) shallow and the 'tests' would need to be expanded to be really interesting: what happens if you put on pictures from women from different cultures, ditto men from different cultures? Where are these insulting comments coming from? Does it also happen if you use 'less-into-your-face chat widgets'? etc...

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am male and used to work in a call centre. I apparently have a good voice, and I was repeatedly asked out by random women calling the service desk. I even got a virtual stalker who kept inventing issues and calling daily just to speak with me. Since I am male, I was not threatened but amused, but I can see how a woman would feel vulnerable in the same situation.

>Since I am male, I was not threatened but amused, but I can see how a woman would feel vulnerable in the same situation. Why ?

In the US, the average guy is five inches taller and about 30 pounds heavier than the average lady. Also, given a particular body weight, men tend to be stronger than women. Furthermore, 80% of people arrested for violent crime are men.

Seems pretty clear to me.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#197

Amazing. The author spends a lot of time to tell us a very convincing story how sexism affects people in our industry, and the Hacker News thread is full of people rationalizing it. - it's only because people think you're a bot - it's because of your target audience - it's because chat widgets are annoying - you don't really have enough data to make any conclusions How much will it take to convince the average HN rea…

Anecdotal and not really a big problem, but it took me having to put my coke in a coffee cup to be taken seriously in meetings to really "get it".

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprised here also (I'm a guy in my 40s; 25 years online) - I know there are people online with no manners, and I go out of my way not to interact with them, but the sheer level of abuse shown here (and sadly elsewhere too) constantly amazes and upsets me. The obvious thing to do is to remove anonymity from the Internet. However then what do we do about peoples rights[1] to free speech? --- [1] Not every country giv…

Facebook is a fantastic example that lack of anonymity does not solve anything. It takes 5 seconds to find groups where people openly say that all women are bad, immigrants should be shot, black people are responsible for all the crime etc etc......even though all of their friends and family can see those posts. It solves nothing.

See also YouTube comments when the real name policy was a thing.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#199

It may also be that people are more likely to assume it's a bot if it's a female, given that almost all chat bots claim to be female.

That would still be sexism. Im not sure people care why others are being jerks to them. If people are a jerk to you because you are a woman then that's sexism.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#200
post #151

A popup window with a female avatar starting a chat with you with a generated message reminds everybody of a "hot singles in your area" ad that pretends to be a chat window. That's all there is to it. Receiving nasty messages is not sexual harassment, especially if people assume it's a bot/ad, or an indian sweatshop worker.

A popup window with a female avatar starting a chat with you with a generated message reminds everybody of a "hot singles in your area" ad that pretends to be a chat window.

That was my first thought too; combine that with a userbase containing a majority of heterosexual males and it's easy to see why you got the responses you did: they all thought it was that ad, so reacted accordingly.

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