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Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

kapwing.com

401–410 of 666 posts

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#401

Kids who grew up in an environment where anonymous interaction is the norm (such as kids who have anonymous social chats at school, or do in-game chats etc) have grown so accustomed to it that I don't think they even see it as sexist, racist, bullying etc. Most would probably never say any of this to someones' face, not out of fear of consequences but simply because they know better. Yet in anonymous contact they don…

I think you hit the nail on the head, anonymity can bring out the worst in someone, especially when they feel there is zero repercussions. It’s partly why I hate the throw away accounts here.

> I think you hit the nail on the head, anonymity can bring out the worst in someone, especially when they feel there is zero repercussions. It’s partly why I hate the throw away accounts here.

It's a tradeoff. There are both good and bad things with anonymity and real name policies:

1. Anonymity: people can express themselves without anxiety, but that gives space to assholes to be assholes (barring other control mechanisms).

2. Real names: lots of people will hold back due to anxiety that what they say may come back to haunt them years later [1]. The more timid assholes will inhibit themselves as well, but not all assholes are timid. The main people who will participate (asshole and non-asshole) will have the personality types that DGAF.

In short: anonymity is somewhat more favorable to assholes, but also more favorable to good discussion. I also prefer it, because I'm the kind of person who will just shut up in a deanonymized space.

[1] In ways they may have never even imagined at the time.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#403
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Rude people are sexist" still means we have a 'systemic' problem of sexism. In fact, one might argue that rude people being sexist are worse than polite people being sexist. Because the rude people are more disruptive over all. The statement 'sexism is everywhere' does not mean 'almost all people are sexist'. Instead, it means 'almost all women suffer from sexist attitudes in most areas of their lives. If 10% of peo…

I think the term "sexist" is being used very lightly here. Sexism implies some sort of discrimination based on sex. Same goes for "sexual harassment"; harassment implies some degree of persistence, not just a single action. I think "indecent" behaviour is the most fitting word for this kind of problem.

These people are sending malicious messages to women but not men. This is straightforward discrimination based on sex.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#404

Amazing. The author spends a lot of time to tell us a very convincing story how sexism affects people in our industry, and the Hacker News thread is full of people rationalizing it. - it's only because people think you're a bot - it's because of your target audience - it's because chat widgets are annoying - you don't really have enough data to make any conclusions How much will it take to convince the average HN rea…

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” - Upton Sinclair

The average HN reader is a huge beneficiary of sexism. Most people do not have the mental fortitude to accept that a decent chunk of their good fortune is due to something like this.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its a delicate balance of one wants to be cocky and trashtalk before a game in a fun way, and vs being an obnoxious troll. I see quite a lot of the latter, but I try to play on well moderated servers and servers with votebans.

Sure, but almost all games have the possibility to turn off voice chat for example so you can stop people from simply screaming in the microphone.

I'd never accept anyone being even mildly trashtalking or rude in voice. Being mildly trashtalking in chat is fine. I wouldnt' even switch someone off, I'd voteban immediately (and if the game/community/server is ok more people would).

In the game I play when someone joins who is annoying they are generally called out as "whoa did you just arrive from CoD?"...

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#406

I found this post deeply upsetting and alarming. I guess I am lucky that my co-founder and I run a B2B SaaS, and not a B2C company - in over two years of running a chat agent on our website and within our app, we have never had anything even close to this. Frankly, seeing the interactions on that blog post was like opening a door into some sort of hell hole. Maybe I lead some sort of cloistered life online, but I don…

If by "cloistered" you mean "male" (and also "white") then, yes, I'm sorry to say that you do. Just ask your female co-founder about her general experience online. Even regarding B2B versus B2C, ask her about the subtle if not overt sexism she experiences in the business world.

If only there were a way to see the gender and color breakdown of the downvotes I get.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conclusion we can draw is pretty much what the author says: it's better to present yourself as an anonymous avatar than a real person. Despite what marketing people tell you about "creating a connection" or "showing that your company is made of real people", often a bit of distance and professionalism is best for your relationship with customers.

> it's better to present yourself as an anonymous avatar than a real person. Only if you want to avoid rude/sexist messages. You can get more normal messages with good looking girl, and that's what matters for business.

Do you have a source for that claim?

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#408

Kids who grew up in an environment where anonymous interaction is the norm (such as kids who have anonymous social chats at school, or do in-game chats etc) have grown so accustomed to it that I don't think they even see it as sexist, racist, bullying etc. Most would probably never say any of this to someones' face, not out of fear of consequences but simply because they know better. Yet in anonymous contact they don…

Agreed. This problem is closer to "online graffiti" (every text box is the canvas) than sexism, racism, etc. The assumption that a bot may be on the receiving end further encourages the behavior. These kids know better, though I do think a healthy "fear of consequences" or reality check can help.

I'd expect the rate of abuse to decline fairly significantly with the simple addition of the text "This conversation is being monitored by a supervisor", appearing a few moments after the first message is sent.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Julia" isn't being insulted more than "Eric" because of sexism. "Julia" being insulted more than "Eric" is sexism. The causes of sexism is another subject. But the first step is to acknowledge sexism is going on in the first place.

> "Julia" isn't being insulted more than "Eric" because of sexism. "Julia" being insulted more than "Eric" is sexism. How do you jump to that conclusion? For instance, where did you isolated other factors, such as personality or communication style or clients who engaged them? What was the result of placing a man using a female avatar or a woman using a man avatar? Do rude comments directed at woman count as sexism a…

In this entire situation, it was ALWAYS Julia answering the messages; the ONLY thing that changed was name and photo.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I play online games, in this example PUBG, I think a part of the fun is to be rude and aggressive before the match starts. You're about to virtually shoot them in the head so saying something rude to random online gamers doesn't feel at all bad. Other people often respond back, just as rudely and I think it's hilarious. It can't be just me who thinks and acts like this? Context matters a lot in my opinion. Altho…

> You're about to virtually shoot them in the head so saying something rude to random online gamers doesn't feel at all bad. Other people often respond back, just as rudely and I think it's hilarious. Examine what you're saying here. You're saying because YOU don't feel bad when you do it to others, it's okay. And because people retaliate, that makes your initial act of rudeness ok, as if that's what the other party…

> Just because someone returns your behavior doesn't mean they LIKE that sort of behavior, or are even okay with it.

Trash talk has a long history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trash-talk

The whole point is for the other side not to like it and get knocked emotionally off-kilter and lose focus, giving you a competitive edge. It's part of the metagame.

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