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Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

kapwing.com

211–220 of 666 posts

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#211

Amazing. The author spends a lot of time to tell us a very convincing story how sexism affects people in our industry, and the Hacker News thread is full of people rationalizing it. - it's only because people think you're a bot - it's because of your target audience - it's because chat widgets are annoying - you don't really have enough data to make any conclusions How much will it take to convince the average HN rea…

Anecdotal and not really a big problem, but it took me having to put my coke in a coffee cup to be taken seriously in meetings to really "get it".

Thanks for the tip about the cup in meetings. Often these implicit rules are not obvious, so making them explicit is very helpful to work around and maybe even fix them.

Humans are guided by stereotypes and superstition and not scepticism and scientific reason. And if there is an individual that is sceptical and demands scientific reason, they are punished socially for it. This makes homo sapiens look a bit bad in my eyes.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#212
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sexism might be everywhere (going both ways), but this particular case likely isn't sexism. Even if it is, it's not clear whether this is sexism against women or against men (programmers in particular) assumed to be hiding behind pretty woman's photo.

Since the female photos get a significantly higher level of harrassed, how does this not indicate sexism?

I agree with your conclusion (that this is sexist), but not for the reasons you state. Correlation and causation, and all that.

If crappy programmers make crappy chatbots, and they all have female pictures, then people's disdain would not be caused by a sexist reasoning, but by the widespread practice of using female pictures in crappy chatbots.

I have no idea how would one go about testing this theory, specially when I believe your conclusion to be correct to begin with. But I can see why other commenters would disagree.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Since I am male, I was not threatened but amused, but I can see how a woman would feel vulnerable in the same situation. Why ?

In the US, the average guy is five inches taller and about 30 pounds heavier than the average lady. Also, given a particular body weight, men tend to be stronger than women. Furthermore, 80% of people arrested for violent crime are men. Seems pretty clear to me.

This is happening by phone.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#214

Kids who grew up in an environment where anonymous interaction is the norm (such as kids who have anonymous social chats at school, or do in-game chats etc) have grown so accustomed to it that I don't think they even see it as sexist, racist, bullying etc. Most would probably never say any of this to someones' face, not out of fear of consequences but simply because they know better. Yet in anonymous contact they don…

I think you hit the nail on the head, anonymity can bring out the worst in someone, especially when they feel there is zero repercussions. It’s partly why I hate the throw away accounts here.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#215
I find the sexual harrassment to be appalling and it upsets me that she had to face those types of challenges when her only goal was to increase engagement with the user base.

Though I have to wonder how many of the total user base were responsible for the harrassment. They should be able to track this through logs etc to better understand the scale of the harrassers.

One must equally be prepared to ask if this is an expected outcome from selection bias? Her user base appears to be onlya sub section of a subsection of a slice which is only a slither of the meme following community. I a going to generalize here but when you cater to a community which runs off dark humor, sarscasm, and the occasional debauchery - I wouldn't be surprised of the possibility and abundance of users that are non-pc and disregard most of the norms established in society.

To be very honest, I feel like her post is the equivalent of a female prison guard complaining of the lack of empathy and manners in the male prisoner population... One could also make the comparison of female guards in a female prison.

Females are not as physically strong as males on average and due to this and other societial factors, they are exposed to an over adbundance of harrassment.

It's a problem yes, but it is an obvious expectation of unfettered anonymous communication on this the internet. Just as the potential for violence, injury and bodily harm is there for many professions that engaged with large the populations - cops, guards, public relations, celebrities, journalist, etc.

Unless the internet is regulated, I believe all users should be very aware of it's faults, and perpensity for unusual and harrassing behavior. To control that aspect of the internet would be to implement censorship which would cause way more harm.

[Edited based on feedback.]

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#216
post #105

Amazing. The author spends a lot of time to tell us a very convincing story how sexism affects people in our industry, and the Hacker News thread is full of people rationalizing it. - it's only because people think you're a bot - it's because of your target audience - it's because chat widgets are annoying - you don't really have enough data to make any conclusions How much will it take to convince the average HN rea…

"Rude people are sexist" or "Sexist people are rude" is about the only conclusion you can draw here (maybe not even that, correlation != causation etc etc) It doesn't even come close to showing how "sexism is everywhere". For all we know the sample could be entirely edgy 12 year olds. Tell me again how this self-admittedly "non-rigorous scientific study" proves "sexism is everywhere"? It could easily be that more att…

"Rude people are sexist" still means we have a 'systemic' problem of sexism. In fact, one might argue that rude people being sexist are worse than polite people being sexist. Because the rude people are more disruptive over all.

The statement 'sexism is everywhere' does not mean 'almost all people are sexist'. Instead, it means 'almost all women suffer from sexist attitudes in most areas of their lives. If 10% of people are sexist, that is easily enough for all women to notice it. I'd guess the real threshold is more like 3% of people being sexist.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#217

Amazing. The author spends a lot of time to tell us a very convincing story how sexism affects people in our industry, and the Hacker News thread is full of people rationalizing it. - it's only because people think you're a bot - it's because of your target audience - it's because chat widgets are annoying - you don't really have enough data to make any conclusions How much will it take to convince the average HN rea…

"Sexism is actually everywhere" is an extremely strong statement. Such a strong statement requires an extraordinary amount of work (going far beyond mere observations) to be proven. I personally would be very interested to know why "Julia" is being insulted much more than "Eric", but saying "this is because of sexism" is no better than saying that "the sun is bright because it shines".

Most things in life cannot be terated like a scientific experiment. It would be interesting to conduct high quality research to find out if my company is sexist, but there is no time, money or desire to do that. So we have to rely on less formal information.

Also the whole "strong statement requires an extraordinary amount of work" thing is entirely dependant on your outlook. I could just as easily say the opposite statement (that sexisim is minimal) and suggest that it requires extraordinary evidence to prove that. The degree to which you think something is extraordinary depends on your outlook and experience, it is rarely objective.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#218
I found this post deeply upsetting and alarming. I guess I am lucky that my co-founder and I run a B2B SaaS, and not a B2C company - in over two years of running a chat agent on our website and within our app, we have never had anything even close to this. Frankly, seeing the interactions on that blog post was like opening a door into some sort of hell hole.

Maybe I lead some sort of cloistered life online, but I don't think I have ever seen anything like it. And yes, I am male and my co-founder is female, and all of our team use our own profile pics within our chat widget. I will never tolerate even a paying customer treating any of my team with anything but courtesy and respect.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sexism is actually everywhere" is an extremely strong statement. Such a strong statement requires an extraordinary amount of work (going far beyond mere observations) to be proven. I personally would be very interested to know why "Julia" is being insulted much more than "Eric", but saying "this is because of sexism" is no better than saying that "the sun is bright because it shines".

"Julia" isn't being insulted more than "Eric" because of sexism. "Julia" being insulted more than "Eric" is sexism. The causes of sexism is another subject. But the first step is to acknowledge sexism is going on in the first place.

>”Julia" being insulted more than "Eric" is sexism.

This argument could stand if we knew the exact sexual preferences of site users. If tested auditory was e.g. 100% to-male-attracted, what is your guess about “Eric” getting harassed or attacked vs “Julia”?

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#220

Amazing. The author spends a lot of time to tell us a very convincing story how sexism affects people in our industry, and the Hacker News thread is full of people rationalizing it. - it's only because people think you're a bot - it's because of your target audience - it's because chat widgets are annoying - you don't really have enough data to make any conclusions How much will it take to convince the average HN rea…

That’s not sexism, just being disrespectful.

But why are you surprised about this if the next article on HN may be about technology in PornHub?

It’s okay to treat women as a piece of meat in porn, but suddenly it’s a big deal if people are making sexual comments?

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