Live data from Hacker News

26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

221–230 of 244 posts

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#221
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A citation ? I shudder at the idea of lending an air of academic gravitas to Bill Maher's Real Time , but yes it's clear that jumping on the “that’s racism” bandwagon, as the gp put it, is exactly what Affleck did. He was so angered by the statement, " We have been sold this meme of Islamophobia, where every criticism of the doctrine of Islam get conflated as bigotry against Muslims as people. It is intellectually ri…

Re:Affleck, again, that’s not the claim being discussed. Nobody is being criticized for scientific study – this is just a bunch of rich elite men talking about politics. That said, it also doesn’t match the claims you’re making. Affleck wasn’t saying that no bad had ever happened with Islam, but rather that it wasn’t good to make such broad claims about a huge and diverse population — note that each of the things men…

> note that each of the things mentioned are also true of Christians but we are far less likely to treat such blanket statements about them as useful or accurate.

The "rich elite man" Affleck was yelling at for criticizing Islam wrote two full books criticising Christianity earlier in his career and received very little blowback for them. In fact, those books are what made him a "rich elite man", as you put it.

>> Take a look at what evolutionary psychologists and biologists have been facing over the past decade.

> I’m well aware of that and you’re misrepresenting it.

How can you both be well aware of what I was thinking and that I was misrepresnting? I didn't even reference a specific incident! You've both mentally filled in an example and invented some misrepresentation you believe I've made about it.

The principle of charity dictates the opposite.

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But what are these alternatives? 1% of the population are psychopaths and no one knows how to make them not be so. What else can we do but put them away?

Maybe we should figure out why they are "psychopaths", rather than locking them up and throwing away the key?

Hahah, apparently this is a controversial suggestion. Never realized HN is so right-wing.

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#223
post #85
post #5

Studies like this are hard, because they're usually labeled 'racist', or it turns into an ad hominem attack on the authors, or struck down in the media for singling out some minority group. I love the wording as it has a focus on the positive; summed up it basically says: we can't help those who we can't identity.

> Studies like this are hard, because they're usually labeled 'racist', or it turns into an ad hominem attack on the authors, or struck down in the media for singling out some minority group. I think you’re confusing studies with conclusions. What you’re describing doesn’t happen but what is common are studies finding a correlation which leads to someone claiming causation and then complaining when they’re criticized…

Way to prove my point.

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#224

Having lived poor places across the US for the last 15 years, I have come up with two root causes for the violence I have seen. 1. Drug prohibition related. 2. Keeping it Real going wrong. The Drug War and inter-generational poverty are two tough nuts to crack. The American mythology of Bootstraps and Individualism that's so baked into our culture gives us limited toolsets for dealing with these problems because they…

"Rugged Individualism" is a campaign slogan of Herbert Hoover from 1928.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=rugged%20indiv...

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22rugged+individualism%22&l...

See particularly:

https://books.google.com/books?id=85cGAQAAIAAJ&q=%22rugged+i...

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#225
post #64
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be more charitable in your reading of that comment. If you’d prefer, interpret it this way: “These studies can be socially controversial, and so authors must be especially careful in the way they conduct their research and present their conclusions.” At a certain point, demanding empirical evidence for a clearly observable societal zeitgeist becomes disingenuous or obtuse, regardless of how well-intentioned the reque…

I am not being uncharitable. I am asking whether the poster has analyzed the number of studies in the USA, structured as carefully as this one, and found that they are in fact labelled racist more than 50% of the time. And if so, by whom. I don't think the poster needs charity. Clarity is more like it.

Your question was fair. The phrasing comes across as uncharitable.

"Do you have any references for this?" might be less strident.

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#226
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Studies like this are hard, because they're usually labeled 'racist'," Please provide some factual, quantified basis for this statement.

How could empirical science be labeled "racist". Is there some kind of official science police ?

There are numerous examples which come to mind from circa 1939 - 1945, particularly certain central-European and east-Asian government-sponsored activities.

Though that's hardly the only place or time.

SPLC maintain a set of references on more current instances.

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#227

Interesting how similar the distribution of criminality is to the distribution of wealth, in which the top 1% own a bit over half. https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/nov/14/worlds-ri...

Zipf Function / Power Distribution.

Exceedingly common in population distributions.

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#228
post #216
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we? How do you draw that conclusion from the data? Personality disorders seem to be fairly resistant to treatment/therapy, and certainly more than 1% of the population has issues with mental health, yet they don’t seem to commit crimes at such an alarming rate. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I don’t think your conclusion is directly supported by this study.

You've been using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's an abuse of this site, regardless of which ideology you're promulgating, because it destroys the intellectual curiosity which the site is for. Since (a) the site guidelines explicitly ask you not do this; (b) you've ignored our recent request to stop doing this, and (c) you've been using multiple accounts to do it in this thread, we've banned this account.…

Why did you shadow ban me?

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#229
post #220
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The left, and in particular the radical left, has no issue having such constant discourse in regards to men. Even in this article the politics of our day shows that gender is acceptable to call out but not race. This article shows the issue of doing so. The subtext from much of left literature is to instill the idea that violence is innately male (factually false) or that men are somehow intrinsically drawn to violen…

> The left, and in particular the radical left, has no issue having such constant discourse in regards to men. Why would there be? The point of view is not one of describing some hypothetical world but our concrete world. If in our concrete world the position of, say, white men and that of blacks is different, why would you even assume that the two should be treated the same in discussions of society? No sociologist,…

The point should be to look at the current power in society in the context of the distribution. The top 1% in power is men, but the bottom 1% in power is also men. By selectively only looking at the top 1% we disregard the context of the other 99%, harming them in the process just like when we focus on Muslim terrorists rather than the 99% of Muslims who aren't terrorists. Worse we are doing double damage to those at the bottom of society.

> In general, we don't like talking about innate qualities

"Men violence against women" - Title of a lot of writing, government reports, books, and so on from the left. We don't see "foreigners violence against Swedes" or "Muslims violence against non-believers". That would be titles from far right writing. A spade is a spade on both side when looked at from the middle.

> men have been subjugating women almost everywhere almost constantly for many centuries if not millennia, while Islam has become abnormally overrepresented in terrorism only very recently

No, yes, and no. Religion has been associated with wars and violence for centuries if not millennia. Gender roles has also existed for that long, but only very recently being describe as subjugating. History get interpreted through political leaning and rewriting history is an old political trick by both the left and right. Reading how life was a few hundred years have very little in the form of gender subjugating, unless you count taking men from their home and against their will putting them on the war front to die. Much of cultural values in historical society can be derive from two core gender roles, that of the nurture role and the support role. One exist to create the family, the other exist to supply food and defense. If we want to describe that as subjugating then lets call what it is. Both are being subjugated. Take any time in history and what we have is a lack of liberty for the 99% of the population, men or women. The 99% rarely if ever has power, control, or freedom from subjugating.

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#230
post #229
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The left, and in particular the radical left, has no issue having such constant discourse in regards to men. Why would there be? The point of view is not one of describing some hypothetical world but our concrete world. If in our concrete world the position of, say, white men and that of blacks is different, why would you even assume that the two should be treated the same in discussions of society? No sociologist,…

The point should be to look at the current power in society in the context of the distribution . The top 1% in power is men, but the bottom 1% in power is also men. By selectively only looking at the top 1% we disregard the context of the other 99%, harming them in the process just like when we focus on Muslim terrorists rather than the 99% of Muslims who aren't terrorists. Worse we are doing double damage to those a…

> By selectively only looking at the top 1% we disregard the context of the other 99%

But that's not what we do. First, instead of looking at just 2% of the population as you seem to suggest we should do, we look at all of them, and on the whole, much more power is held by men than by women. Second, we feminists generally care much more about the bottom 1% (or 50%) of society -- be they men, women, black or white -- than the rich and powerful men at the top 1%. You can see that not only in historical events (feminists were a strong power among the abolitionists in 19th century US) but even if you look at current events, and see that women are disproportionately represented in demonstrations against unfair incarceration, against deportation of refugees etc..

> "Men violence against women" - Title of a lot of writing, government reports, books, and so on from the left.

I don't see any reference to innate qualities here.

> We don't see "foreigners violence against Swedes" or "Muslims violence against non-believers".

First, because unlike men violence against women, those are actually outliers rather than the norm. Second, like I wrote in another comment, I don't understand your expectation. If the position of Muslims and immigrants in a Western country is so very different from that of native men, why would you even want them to be treated the same? Is a diamond handled the same way as limestone just because they are both rocks? Note that I am not talking about any innate qualities, just the current state of affairs.

> Gender roles has also existed for that long, but only very recently being describe as subjugating.

That's just a total and complete fabrication. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_feminism and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protofeminism

> Reading how life was a few hundred years have very little in the form of gender subjugating, unless you count taking men from their home and against their will putting them on the war front to die.

I actually studied history (mostly medieval) in grad school, and what you're writing here is total BS.

> Much of cultural values in historical society can be derive from two core gender roles, that of the nurture role and the support role. One exist to create the family, the other exist to supply food and defense.

Do you still believe that the world is made of the four classical elements? Do you believe that the Earth is flat? If you had actually studied history from actual historians and primary sources, the ideas you mention here would sound equally ridiculous to you as the four elements and the flat Earth. 1. they are mostly ahistorical fabrications, and 2. to the small extent that they are historically true, their explanative power is false as the claim would work in the same way to justify any current state of affairs -- we're here because the system is good. For example, in the time of slavery I could use the exact same description to justify slavery; in fact people did exactly that (and slavery has made much more economical "sense" than the subjugation of women) and yet changing the system turined out just fine. Finally, suppose that this fantasy were true (although I truly feel sorry for you that you've somehow been convinced by such BS), as I mentioned above throughout history women have expressed anger at their subjugation -- do you morally support constantly harming billions of others even for some imagined greater good? Do you also support slavery, then?

I can't stop you from being of the opinion that women should be subjugated (unfortunately, this is far from a fringe opinion; in a way, it's still the ruling opinion although it's no longer usually made so explicit), but please don't try to justify that position using fabricated history.

Post reply on HN