26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014) • Hacker News Board

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#191

Post by cannonedhamster » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 7:42 PM UTC

hammock wrote: post #174

splitrocket wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This study indicates that incarceration, at least as it is currently implemented, is emphatically not a deterrent for repeat violent offenders. As for the public safety element, yes, but these people mostly weren’t locked up for life. What this shows, at least, in my opinion, is that much more intensive psychological and therapeutic interventions are needed, because if anything, incarceration as it currently exists w…

You're missing the other half of the picture. How many were deterred because of prison? Would it have been 2 or 5 or 10% were it not for the deterrents? You can't say.

You're assuming people use logical, rational thought which has ample amounts of evidence against it. Jails used to be horrific, yet crime rates were higher. The presence of a jail sentence or even a death sentence as a deterrent is widely discredited. The only uses for prisons are to prevent future crimes by removing the ability to perform crimes and intensive rehabilitation. Most former convicts do not want to reoffend but the American social and legal system of punishing people for their entire lives for offenses committed once prevents effective reintegration into society.

All the science points to preventing initial conditions for conviction and significant improvements needed post release.

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/20...

https://nij.gov/five-things/Pages/deterrence.aspx

https://www.nij.gov/topics/corrections/recidivism/Pages/welc...

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#192

Post by zerostar07 » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 7:44 PM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #5

Studies like this are hard, because they're usually labeled 'racist', or it turns into an ad hominem attack on the authors, or struck down in the media for singling out some minority group. I love the wording as it has a focus on the positive; summed up it basically says: we can't help those who we can't identity.

Got it, this is taboo science that may lead to societal collapse. We should find science that better suits our preconceptions. Just pointing out the obvious absurdity here.

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#193

Post by refurb » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 7:47 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #172

scarmig wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't there a bit of irony there? In that you want to send the send-people-to-prison-to-suffer people to prison to suffer?

Let's call it poetic justice, or taste of their own medicine.

You sound just like the people you condemn.

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#194

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 7:47 PM UTC

dsacco wrote: post #59

frabbit wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Studies like this are hard, because they're usually labeled 'racist'," Please provide some factual, quantified basis for this statement.

Be more charitable in your reading of that comment. If you’d prefer, interpret it this way: “These studies can be socially controversial, and so authors must be especially careful in the way they conduct their research and present their conclusions.” At a certain point, demanding empirical evidence for a clearly observable societal zeitgeist becomes disingenuous or obtuse, regardless of how well-intentioned the reque…

[deleted]

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#195

Post by refurb » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 7:49 PM UTC

saas_co_de wrote: post #160

throwaway894345 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manslaughter and murder are already criminalized, at least in the United States. Where do you live?

How many executives and board members of companies manufacturing opiate pain killers (to give only one example) have you seen charged with manslaughter recently?

Well considering drug companies aren't the one who prescribe the drug, I'd be shocked to see many of them in prison.

Doctor's, on the other hand, have been sent to prison for out of control prescribing of opioids.

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#196

Post by zerostar07 » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 7:51 PM UTC

frabbit wrote: post #41

exabrial wrote: post #5

Studies like this are hard, because they're usually labeled 'racist', or it turns into an ad hominem attack on the authors, or struck down in the media for singling out some minority group. I love the wording as it has a focus on the positive; summed up it basically says: we can't help those who we can't identity.

"Studies like this are hard, because they're usually labeled 'racist'," Please provide some factual, quantified basis for this statement.

How could empirical science be labeled "racist". Is there some kind of official science police ?

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#197

Post by lostlogin » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 7:57 PM UTC

armenarmen wrote: post #169

stordoff wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP said "population level gender differences might better explain Google's hiring pipeline". Men may be the majority of Google employees, but they clearly aren't the majority of the population. That suggests there is discrimination somewhere, either in Google's hiring approach or in wider society (it's unlikely that there is some innate difference between men and woman that would account for such a disparity).

OP said "population level gender differences might better explain Google's hiring pipeline" referring not to the population of the US, but the Pool of Engineering students.

So given we aren’t talking about the actual demographics of the regions they hire in, why not narrow it further?

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#198

Post by lostlogin » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 7:58 PM UTC

bradknowles wrote: post #112

lostlogin wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is one that is fraught where I live - disciplining children with a smack. Many people think hitting children in a disciplinary context should be legal.

How do you define a “smack” versus a “hit”?

If one does neither it doesn’t matter.

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#199

Post by oddlyaromatic » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 8:08 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #147

Anon1096 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you don't want people who currently aren't committing crimes to begin doing so. Who's to say that the current deterred subset of the population won't begin to commit crimes if our style of punishment is changed?

That seems to start from the assumption that everyone would commit crime if they could.

They specifically referred to the "deterred subset" ... which is much smaller then "everyone".

In any case, the parent's point seemed pretty empty.

> Who's to say that the current deterred subset of the population won't begin to commit crimes if our style of punishment is changed?

This is what research is for. We may never know what is optimal in an absolute sense, but we can figure out some relative costs/benefits of different approaches to problems and choose our tradeoffs appropriately.

Re: 26% of violent crime convicts account for 63% of violent crime conviction (2014)

#200

Post by ComputerGuru » Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 8:12 PM UTC

AdeptusAquinas wrote: post #182

ComputerGuru wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think comparisons to "other affluent countries" are apt; the socioeconomic and cultural makeup of the United States is so starkly different from pretty much any other country (even our immediate neighbors to the north and south). In particular, the institution of slavery and perhaps even more so, the culture of segregation, condescension, and disdain that followed from The Reconstruction onwards resulted in s…

It's been seen plenty of places in the world. Probably most, by area anyway. There are still places where a significant portion of the population are not only disdained and disenfranchised, but actively killed without much consequence: the Rohingya for a current example, or the lowest castes in India

Absolutely. But few would make comparisons or draw parallels to them, whereas they'll be quick to do so for the Nordic nations or similar.