Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 421 posts

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#261

Post by znpy »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #164
raverbashing wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For migraine sufferers, not taking something as it starts to unfold will result in a very unpleasant experience that will take longer to resolve

I had all four wisdom teeth removed at once and all I needed was one ibuprofen the first night, but a fucking migraine and I need at least one, sometimes two.

I had a wisdom teeth removed and was given basically nothing, besides the anesthetic injection needed for me not to feel pain during the procedure.

Please note that my wisdom tooth was about 80-90% developed and outside the gum, so no "surgery" was required, just some lever movement to pull it out. Also, no stitches were needed.

I was sent home with just an advice to eat non-solid, cold stuff "using the other side of the mouth".

Quite frankly, everything went okay. It was weird feeling that hole in my mouth, but it eventually filled itself.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#262

Post by snotrockets »

btian wrote: post #222
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My suspicion is that paracetamol / acetaminophen and ibuprofen are so incredibly not-good for you, and this anaesthesiologist knows this , that he covering his ass by minimising how much he doles out.

Huh? You don't need a prescription to get paracetamol, acetaminophen, and ibuprofen

Both of them (Acetaminophen is the US name for Paracetamol) are highly dangerous, even in small dosages. Paracetamol poisoning can kill within a day, and the lethal dosage is equivalent to about 20 pills. Ibuprofen is proven to cause heart attacks & stroke.

Your suggestion is the perfect example of why over the counter drugs as so dangerous: a Dr or a pharmacist is aware of the dangers, that we (being the public) may not know about, and should not dispense those without taking them into account.

The problem is you can't make over the counter drugs illegal in the US, not only because of the medical-industrial complex lobbying, but also because of the cost of getting a Rx. Had the US had a public health system…

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#263

Post by problems »

eropple wrote: post #260
problems wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to me to be entirely backwards. If you appreciate creativity, don't you want to have as much time as possible to experience and enjoy the world around you? To learn? To create? Why would you spend the day stuck in bed feeling like shit, unable to do anything but watch TV when you could easily solve that and do more?

There is a joke about Americans (which I extend to "most people", and definitely to most technical people I know): if one is to stop being stimulated from outside, then one runs the very real risk of having to consider what is inside. I tend to consider the cavalier American use of painkillers to be in that "stimulated from outside" bucket--and I try very hard to be unafraid of considering what might be inside. I alr…

I think you're confusing some sort of emotional pain which may deserve analysis with physical pain which analysis cannot bring any insights from - it's just pain. Nothing revolutionary.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#264

Post by Cogito »

WoodenChair wrote: post #180
chrisper wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have never finished a prescription, as it simply stops occurring to me to take it once the pain is gone. I hope you don't do that with antibioticum.

Actually the new literature says it's okay to stop antibiotics early. https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/883545

The article seems to be behind a registration wall - are you able to provide a summary?

Also, do you know if this is a widely held position or just emerging?

I found a couple of things, but none of them are as clear cut as "it's okay to stop antibiotics early".

This [0] article says

> Health professionals are trading in the "complete the course" slogan. Instead, they recommend that patients take their medicines "exactly as prescribed."

which seems to be a quote from this [1] linked article.

[0] https://www.custompilatesandyoga.com/health/always-finish-an...

[1] http://www.bmj.com/content/358/bmj.j3418.full

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#265

Post by namibj »

WoodenChair wrote: post #180
chrisper wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have never finished a prescription, as it simply stops occurring to me to take it once the pain is gone. I hope you don't do that with antibioticum.

Actually the new literature says it's okay to stop antibiotics early. https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/883545

Last time the doctor did not give me enough penicillin, I was required to take a disgusting roadband antibiotics, which I had to mask with taste-numbing food, to not throw up the instant it hit any muscous membrane. Due to that, we had a tablet of it on a plate in the corner of the kitchen, and were wondering in the (no door; adjacent) living room, where that horrible smell came from. Anecdata: since then, I fear horrible broadband antibiotics being needed.

I would prefer phages, but they are soviet tech, and soviet died.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#266

Post by snotrockets »

ggregoire wrote: post #39
chrisper wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it has more to do with how readily available medication is in the US (Supermarket).

I'm not sure it's a valid point since I can just enter in one of the 3 pharmacies near me and buy a box of aspirins for 2€. We don't have medications in supermarket but we have a LOT of pharmacies here (France).

But can you buy a box of 1000 aspirin tablets? That would be $23 in the US: https://www.cvs.com/shop/cvs-health-ibuprofen-tablets-200mg-...

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#267

Post by wolfgke »

kurthr wrote: post #236
dpflan wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that there is no "one-size-fits-all" medical solution, but perhaps having this base-line allows building up when discussed with one's doctor - the article does not discuss this post-operation re-negotiation of how to manage the pain. Perhaps some HNers have experience with a similar situation that they could share.

I have had my teeth filled by a dentist that didn't "believe" in novocaine. Luckily, he died before I had any significant issues, and I had a later dentist that did it correctly. If you are doubtful of the usefulness of pain management while receiving a filling, you can try it yourself. I'm perfectly understanding the concern for long term morpohine derivatives for treating post-surgical pain (although there are plen…

> I have had my teeth filled by a dentist that didn't "believe" in novocaine. Luckily, he died before I had any significant issues, and I had a later dentist that did it correctly. If you are doubtful of the usefulness of pain management while receiving a filling, you can try it yourself.

I (German) openly prefer it, if the dentist gives the option whether to get a anaesthetic injection or not for dental fillings, not to get one, since I strongly prefer 5 to 10 somewhat inconvenient minutes over having a numb jaw for a whole day.

I am of course aware that there are really painful dental treatments such as dental root canal treatments - but in these cases no dentist will give you the choice whether to get a anaesthetic injection or not.

> Luckily, he died before I had any significant issues,

Why didn't you simply change your dentist?

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#268

Post by znpy »

jimjimjim wrote: post #118
zython wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This make me think: Could this behaviour be influenced by US-american pharma corporations being allowed to run (TV-)ads on prescription medications ?

I think this is probably quite accurate. Looking at tv in various countries, they just don't have the pill advertisements like America does. ask your doctor about...

> ask your doctor about...

That freaks me out. The doctor is supposed to tell me what to assume, not the other way around.

Also, I have seen too many stories of drug representative sellers with no background in medical sciences convincing doctors to prescribe a drug with many, more-or-less honest arguments.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#269

Post by throwaway34241 »

eropple wrote: post #44
problems wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I question the idea that it's beneficial to experience pain - why should I? Especially if it's going to cost me days of my life that I could do something with. Maybe not go out, but at least be able to catch up on some of the more passive content... seems like a needless waste of life.

The experience of pain (and I'm separating this from the dopamine-release thing for people who groove on that sort of thing) is, for my money, a useful training facility for willpower and restraint. Separate from the pain-as-warning-signs noted by 'lukeschlather, few things hurt that much and the fact that you are not the master of even yourself is a valuable reminder. The experience of being uncomfortable is not a b…

People talking positively about pain (and especially immediate post-surgical pain as in the article) makes me uneasy. Sure, some level of pain is useful as a warning sign. And wanting painkillers primarily to avoid resting is unreasonable.

But, if there is too much pain, it will cause extreme stress during the day and they will probably be unable to sleep at night - it is hard to imagine this being beneficial for recovery.

Also, if the pain is too great, people will avoid future treatment, even if it is medically advisable.

I think there have been problems with anesthesia in the past, where people woke up during surgery (although still unable to move), and I think it led to negative outcomes even though it is only pain - although I admit, I am reluctant to look up the details.

At the very least, I think it is good to give enough pain medication so that the patient does not want to die, although I understand it may be unavoidable when the level / duration is high enough.

It looks like in the article, the level of pain and recovery for this procedure is not very bad (probably because it's laparoscopic), and the doctors know this, so their recommendations were appropriate and the patient was worried over nothing. But, I don't think this means that the same is true for all procedures, and suggesting that people just make peace with it or whatever without knowing what the level is seems wrong. Especially in the case of surgical recovery where the first day or two is usually the worst, and the risks of medication over such a short period are low.

I wouldn't wish for a more serious level of pain on my worst enemy. I do not think it is useful or possible to make peace with, unless you are Buddha himself.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#270

Post by sulam »

The title of this article is misrepresenting the content to the point of distortion. Her doctors never "prescribed" herbal tea (at most they mentioned coffee in the context of stool softeners).

The author sounds a lot like my wife, actually. My wife cannot stand to do "nothing". To me, a day doing "nothing" is like a gift from the universe. I might nap, read a little, noodle around online, learn more of a new language -- all without any particular goal in mind. Heaven! Or Hell, for some people!

Post reply on HN