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Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

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Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#461

Post by icedchai »

Spooky23 wrote: post #266
ShabbosGoy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not only spot, but also invests the energy in calling it out and explaining it. Which is why FOSS is so important. Can you imagine a world where Linux was closed source? You’d never have any insight into security patches, or these discussions.

Worse still, imagine a world where there was no Linux, and Oracle/Sun happened?

That world was the late 90's / early 2000's. Yes, Linux was around, but every startup was buying Sun hardware since it wasn't quite mature yet. Sun was the dot in .com after all.

I actually worked at a startup that threw out a working Linux / MySQL solution in favor of a Sun / Oracle one. Because, you know, VC...

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#462

Post by Libturd »

pessimizer wrote: post #272
jimktrains2 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pc culture? What are you talking about? Linus is pc (in that he doesn't go on misogynistic, racist, or similar rants and doesn't denigrate people for their non-technical decisions) , he's just not nice to those that should know better. While I think you've also been bitten by the "we accept everyone! (who thinks the way we do)" crowd as well, this is not the place or the way to express that frustration.

Some people think that directness and honesty is identical to saying racist, sexist, and homophobic things. So "PC" becomes equivalent to "lying to make people like you."

they're called liberals

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#463

Post by DoreenMichele »

tome wrote: post #428
DoreenMichele wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't remotely what you initially said.

Your argument was > From what I gather, some of this is cultural. His country of origin is just generally blunt and direct about things. and my response was > Regardless of the style in his country and language or origin he is writing in English, in public, for an international audience. Which parts of what I said seem inconsistent to you?

Saying that you expect a different tone because he is currently writing in English, in public, for an international audience is not the same as saying that his culture of origin in no way influences his communication style.

That's like saying because my mother is now an American citizen, she should obviously no longer have a German accent. You may personally feel she has some obligation to do her best to lose the accent, but regardless of the standards you would like to see imposed on other people, most people remain influenced for life by things they grew up with.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#464

Post by chowells »

wilun wrote: post #459
chowells wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not exactly true. You could build an x86-64 chip without these flaws, but it would require a new internal architecture with a lot more silicon. One obvious approach would be to have two caches per core. Speculative execution would use a different cache than normal execution. If the speculative action is committed to, it swaps which cache is the normal one and which is the speculative one. Then you'd also need…

It will very probably not be double caches and nothing that kind of order for requested new silicon area. Its only an annoyance because the design are not gonna change for solid Spectre resistance (at least for its currently known versions v1 and 2) for the next chips, because their design are already complete since month if not years, and yes, that would be very significant changes. But separating the caches? Never…

My point was solely that there are ways to preserve x86-64 as an ISA, and listed the single most obvious way to go about it. I never suggested that it was the best solution, or that those changes would be made any time soon, or that Intel's behavior has been anything but atrocious.

Did you mean to respond to someone else, maybe?

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#465

Post by boomboomsubban »

PopsiclePete wrote: post #438
Filligree wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's hardly limited to women. It's the same reason I have no intention of ever contributing to the kernel.

I'd be absolutely terrified to submit a patch, ever. "What the fuck is this? This came from Satan's butt-hole. Kill whoever did this - kill them immediately, here, I'll go and find this asshole who submitted this patch, and do it for you, you lazy ingrates, why do I have to do everything around here?"

This isn't some lone beginner trying to help improve Linux, this is a billion dollar company with decades of experience trying to cover their own ass. Judging by Linus' thousands of emails on the mailing lists, any reply you got would be polite and helpful.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#466

Post by DerekL »

ratinacage wrote: post #422

> As a hack for existing CPUs, it's just about tolerable â as long as it > can die entirely by the next generation. > Certainly it's a nasty hack, but hey â the world was on fire and in the > end we didn't have to just turn the datacentres off and go back to goat > farming, so it's not all bad. Off-topic, but what is with the "â" in these sentences? Is that just some weird encoding error, or does it actually have mea…

Probably an encoding error. An m-dash is E2 80 94 in UTF-8. (An n-dash is E2 80 93.) I suspect that the original UTF-8 is misinterpreted as ISO 8859-1 or a similar encoding, where 0xE2 is “â”, and the other two are unassigned or control characters.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#467

Post by Florin_Andrei »

mrmondo wrote: post #8

I think we should count ourselves lucky we have someone so good at spotting bullsh*t like this - and isn’t afraid to call it out as they sees it. Intel & friends have absolutely disgusted me lately, it could be all to easy to settle for less based on their standards, but let’s not let them set the standard - they’ve shown they can’t be trusted with quality and when they fail - they can’t be trusted to be transparent…

> Intel & friends have absolutely disgusted me lately [...] - they can’t be trusted to be transparent or even take ownership of the problems they create.

Well, it's the natural outcome of a system based entirely on competition. When the only incentive is "beat everyone else, nothing else matters" then this eventually happens.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#468

Post by ChuckMcM »

Waterluvian wrote: post #440
PopsiclePete wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem with "rockstars and "benevolent dictators", the Linuses and the Elon Musks, isn't it? Everything is great until they go away for whatever reason and nobody can fill the void. Hell, there's people still doubting Tim Cook on whether he can fill Jobs' shoes. I wonder if something like FreeBSD is better suited for sustainability - from what I can tell, there's no "dictator" figure there, no critical si…

It makes me wonder if there are ways to structure an organization in a way that once it has found its purpose and voice, it becomes rigid in its trajectory. Consider an organization that would rather cease to exist or be relevant, than to allow itself all the freedoms to pivot and mutate significantly.

Fundamentally this is the difference between 'organizations' and 'institutions'. In the former, the culture and operation are contained in the people who are part of the organization, in the latter the culture and operation are contained in the rules.

Institutions are much harder to set up, they require that you consider that evil people do evil things, so you have to set up rules and processes. The execution of those rules and processes have to span enough people that a conspiracy would be unlikely. It doesn't always work of course, people find ways to subvert institutions (the zero day exploits of their time).

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#469

Post by tatersolid »

gambiting wrote: post #88
roel_v wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably depends on how old you are. To me it was completely obvious and much, much clearer than most 'modern' user interfaces. Every person replying prefixes each line with > . Proper email clients do this automatically. This way you can tell from the number of >'s how far back on the 'stack' you have to go to know who wrote it. You start reading from the top, mentally associating an indent level (nr of >'s) with a…

I don't know, I'm 27 and a C++ programmer and found it difficult to figure out who's talking at the time. I'm just more used to more modern forums where each "block" is wrapped in quote tags with signature on top.

> I'm 27 and a C++ programmer

Don’t tell Linus!

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#470

Post by Valmar »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #423
workthrowaway27 wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People only post his rants. Most of his replies are pretty benign.

So with only a little counseling he could be a normal human being...

He is a "normal" human being, lol.

What a ridiculous comment.

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