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Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

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Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#401

Post by ashelmire »

mrmondo wrote: post #8

I think we should count ourselves lucky we have someone so good at spotting bullsh*t like this - and isn’t afraid to call it out as they sees it. Intel & friends have absolutely disgusted me lately, it could be all to easy to settle for less based on their standards, but let’s not let them set the standard - they’ve shown they can’t be trusted with quality and when they fail - they can’t be trusted to be transparent…

There's lots of people who call out bullshit. But people usually don't listen or respect them unless they have power - which Linus has. There are plenty of other professionals who have been complaining lately.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#402

Post by frevd »

IntelMiner wrote: post #375
lucb1e wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't make sense though. If Intel indeed plans to leave chips vulnerable except if you set a flag, then how are these bullshit patches? This will be the only solution Intel is going to deliver right? I get that he doesn't like it, but that doesn't explain why he feels lied to. If Intel says "we're going to not turn the patch on by default", wherein does he suspect the lie?

The reasonable expectation would be that Intel fixes one (or both) of the bugs - In newer CPU's. There should be mitigations against these attacks. That would probably seriously hurt intel by delaying their future processor launches - In Older/existing CPU's through microcode updates. Bar literally making "fixed" versions of every Intel CPU in the last 10~ years. This is the only way to resolve the issue on existing…

It's not Intel's issue, it's a design flaw per se, affecting _all_ CPUs that use predictive branch execution that has effects on the processor cache, which are pretty much all processors produced in this millenium.

That said, there _might_ be a solution to this problem in a way that predictive branch execution does not need to be removed completely from future architecture, which would be a thing we don't really want to loose, even if it increases safety. During that time, it makes sense to disable it, but not by default. The only implication is that older systems must be patched, which is every admin's responsibility.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#403

Post by Filligree »

theptip wrote: post #308
Ygg2 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument goes like this, the acerbic culture that grows around Linus is toxic towards female and (sexual/ethnic) minorities, because such contributor are disinclined to join projects where the lead can get verbally abusive. From what I've gathered the findings are based on real data.

> based on real data Citation? Sounds interesting.

That's hardly limited to women. It's the same reason I have no intention of ever contributing to the kernel.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#404

Post by rhizome »

jasonkostempski wrote: post #380
bashcoder wrote: post #30

The most striking thing here is that Linus has apparently dismissed incompetence as a rational explanation. Yes, he is often brash, but usually he is accusing someone of sheer stupidity. He does not do that here. Linus alleges that we are being lied to - that we don’t know the full story, nor Intel’s motives. Furthermore, we are left to wonder if Microsoft is also being fed “bullshit” patches, and if they may be less…

Hanlon's razor should include an exception where PR and politics are involved. Discounting malicious people as just stupid is the reason so many "stupid" people are in power.

That's probably a better fit for Heinlein's Razor:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor#Similar_quota...

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#405

Post by digi_owl »

Clubber wrote: post #251
Fnoord wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From what I gather, some of this cultural. His country of origin is just generally blunt and direct about things. I've heard this blunt(/direct/honest) argument quite often (and the same about my country, The Netherlands), but I've also seen Americans in IT who can be very blunt. I attribute it not to country_of_origin, but to the [autism] spectrum.

I'm not autistic but I'm blunt. I do it for a few reasons: 1. It's important, 2. It saves time, 3. It gets to the point, 4. I'm usually aggravated about something, 5. Some people like to dance around conversations, 6. I'm older now, so I don't suffer fools lightly, 7. It usually snaps people to attention instead of some half thought out reply. I used to try to be tactful with everything I would say, but that ended up…

> FWIW, I save the bluntness for important stuff.

As to Torvalds, but we do not get headlines about his mellow emails accepting a patch.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#406

Post by acct1771 »

joelthelion wrote: post #85
ShabbosGoy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not only spot, but also invests the energy in calling it out and explaining it. Which is why FOSS is so important. Can you imagine a world where Linux was closed source? You’d never have any insight into security patches, or these discussions.

> FOSS is so important FOSS is nice, but it's not a silver bullet. In this case I think Linus is largely to thank. Things will be a lot harder if he decides to retire.

This is as good a place to ask the question nobody likes to discuss, but is important to never forget - what do we do when the bus hits Linus?

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#408

Post by DoreenMichele »

tome wrote: post #262
tauntz wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One expects a different sort of tone. I don't think I can agree with that statement :) I'm part of the target audience and that tone is _exactly_ what I'd expect instead of polite talk that dances around calling out BS for what it is.

The merits or demerits of that tone are another issue. I'm responding to the claim that Linus uses that style because it's the style of the country he comes from . I don't think that argument holds much water.

That isn't remotely what you initially said.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#409

Post by digi_owl »

mrmondo wrote: post #21
Valmar wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Management can seriously make or break a company in various ways. It sucks... :/

Could not agree more, unfortunately I’ve seen the latter more often than the former. When you find good management it is truly inspiring however.

Best i can tell, the latter crops up because of boardroom meddling pushing the focus towards quarterly earnings rather than long term sustainability of the company.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#410

Post by rhizome »

icelancer wrote: post #152
ealexhudson wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to call out bullshit doesn't mean having to curse it out. All Linus needs to do is say something like "I don't understand why this is here, and I'm not merging it until I do", rather than "They do literally insane things. They do things that do not make sense". The latter is not a technical argument, and it doesn't provide accuracy or clarity about next steps. "So somebody isn't telling the truth here. Som…

>> Being able to call out bullshit doesn't mean having to curse it out. Here we go. >> All Linus needs to do is say something like And all you need to do is be that nice and be as brilliant as Linus is. Oh, it's harder to be that smart than it is to be that nice? Maybe consider that for people as highly gifted as Linus, it actually isn't. What you take for granted as normal behavior isn't always normal to others, esp…

Manners were invented to prevent disease and stuff, but they're also used by the aristocracy to differentiate themselves from the rabble. Complaining about word choice and tone is an example of the latter. "Linus doesn't talk the way good people do."
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