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Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

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Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#271

Post by pdpi »

bassman9000 wrote: post #191
Roritharr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only spot, but also invests the energy in calling it out and explaining it. Many business failures i've witnessed happened ultimately because nobody had the energy to cut down the bullshit forest that constantly regrows around a company.

We should treasure it while it lasts, before PC culture silences him. And before downvoting, recall how many threads regarding Linus abusive behavior (sic) we've had.

Can we stop repeating this? Assertiveness and assholery are not one and the same. Linus has both in abundance, and we can decry the one without wanting the other to go away.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#272

Post by pessimizer »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #265
bassman9000 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should treasure it while it lasts, before PC culture silences him. And before downvoting, recall how many threads regarding Linus abusive behavior (sic) we've had.

Pc culture? What are you talking about? Linus is pc (in that he doesn't go on misogynistic, racist, or similar rants and doesn't denigrate people for their non-technical decisions) , he's just not nice to those that should know better. While I think you've also been bitten by the "we accept everyone! (who thinks the way we do)" crowd as well, this is not the place or the way to express that frustration.

Some people think that directness and honesty is identical to saying racist, sexist, and homophobic things. So "PC" becomes equivalent to "lying to make people like you."

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#273

Post by dTal »

ealexhudson wrote: post #108
smcleod wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not the only one, he may be brash at times but god damn we need him and maybe we need his brash anti-bullshit meter too.

Being able to call out bullshit doesn't mean having to curse it out. All Linus needs to do is say something like "I don't understand why this is here, and I'm not merging it until I do", rather than "They do literally insane things. They do things that do not make sense". The latter is not a technical argument, and it doesn't provide accuracy or clarity about next steps. "So somebody isn't telling the truth here. Som…

The function of the "shouting and cursing" is to draw attention. If Linus had used mild language, it wouldn't be on Hacker News and we wouldn't be talking about it. When Linus rants, it's always something worth ranting about; it's a powerful shaming tool to enforce good behaviour in a world where there's little other leverage.

And in the unlikely event that your theory regarding undisclosed vulnerabilities is true, this will certainly make them think twice about leaving Linus out of the loop again, no?

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#274

Post by txdv »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #178
ageofwant wrote: post #117

Linus is angry, that always makes me happy. Lord knows where we would be today if we had leaders like this more frequently through history.

It does make me worry about the day that Linus retires. I imagine the kernel has enough momentum to carry on for a while but without a leader like Linus I can see it very slowly starting to unravel and quality issues starting to sneak in, much like we're seeing with post-Jobs Apple. Thankfully it doesn't seem that time is coming any time soon.

Linus is a pure techie.

No politics, no bullshitting around, your code sucks and he calls you out for it.

The best kind of dictator to have.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#275

Post by liardiary »

icelancer wrote: post #239
dschuetz wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there needs to be a clear distinction of what a bully is and what they do. Bullies are violent for no reason, for the pleasure of it. Linus is at most verbally harsh for pretty obvious reasons, the main reason being the harsh his language the more important the issue is. His attacks and critique are never on the personal basis, yet people get offended for no apparent reason instead of focusing on the issue. S…

I am a big defender of Linus, but: >> His attacks and critique are never on the personal basis This is really not true. Linus takes it way too far from time to time. The person is always in the wrong, but Linus goes well beyond what is necessary. Again, I get it and I don't mind. But he makes it personal occasionally.

Do you have any example of him taking it too far? I don't disagree, I'm just curious.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#276

Post by lucb1e »

_ikke_ wrote: post #258
lucb1e wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. I don't know Bloomberg or The Economist that well, but translating the media brands to Dutch ones, I'd definitely care more what Tweakers.net says about something than NOS - tech news versus general news. I know there are a few people at Tweakers who truly understand technology (like, they can probably write code) whereas at NOS you'd be happy if they explain the word "ransomware" correctly.

Fun fact: one of the tech journalists at the NOS (Joost Schellevis) worked for tweakers.net

Good point, now that you mention it I remember that. Trouble is also that the NOS has to dumb it down and ignore details though.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#277

Post by TuringTest »

icelancer wrote: post #240
pm wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs was a bully who got the big picture right, but often got the details wrong; folklore.org has plenty of stories about people going round Jobs to get shit done. Linus is abrasive, but he usually has a good explanation for why the target of his ire is a moron, e.g. everytime some coder without Linus’ experience suggests converting the kernel codebase to C++. Let’s be honest, most developers are average at best, and…

>> C++ This is the only way you can get Linus to really lose his shit. I'm surprised his comments in this Intel thing approach the level of anger he has for C++. It's my barometer for how important something is to him.

Has anyone suggested him to port the kernel to Rust yet? :-P

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#278

Post by crdoconnor »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #126
joelthelion wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FOSS is so important FOSS is nice, but it's not a silver bullet. In this case I think Linus is largely to thank. Things will be a lot harder if he decides to retire.

A silver bullet is having one smart guy at the top who doesn't care how much pressure you exert on getting something into the codebase, or how much man-hours were spent (sunk cost fallacy). I think in a lot of "corporate" projects (not-open source) there's much less of that and the software is designed by commission, with the lead developer(s) quickly no longer having much of an influence on the code itself, being dr…

I think this is dead on. I think at Microsoft that guy was Dave Cutler. Most of the really well designed stuff seems to have him at the helm - NT4.0, bits of XP, Win2k, Windows Server 2003 and then Azure.

I have a suspicion that Satya's rise to CEOdom via Azure's success could be attributed to him too.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#279

Post by watmough »

mpweiher wrote: post #62
integricho wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel transformed from a technology company to a management company. That somewhat explains their highly unreasonable behavior.

The part of the lifecycle where the clueless have taken over: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...

A masterpiece of writing! A tour-de-force!

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#280

Post by gkya »

nolok wrote: post #74
dingo_bat wrote: post #15

I'm going to be honest, I need an ELI5 here. I know what the meltdown/spectre issues are, and kinda understand what retpoline is.

Big simplification: Proper way to fix an hardware bug like this, is that newer cpu gets protected by default, and they answer they are when queried. So you can ask the CPU "what's your status on bug X" and the cpu answers "i'm good, you don't need to do anything" (newer fixed chips), or "i know about it but was already built, and need microcode update/special behavior to protect myself" (current chips with microcode…

Wow. That's outright malicious behaviour from Intel there.
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