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Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

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171–180 of 702 posts

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#171
post #28

Why doesn't Intel just go to Linus and ask politely: "Ok, we f-ed up, here is a million dollars (or whatever, 10x his normal salary or something) can you please work with us tightly for some time? Thank you." I would really respect Intel if they would.

Intel knows how to fix the problem, they don't really need Linus. What they do need is to accept a slowdown for some of their processors, but they are absolutely terrified to look bad compared to AMD in the benchmarks.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#172
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are fewer people trying to attack AMD's chips, they comprise such a small chunk of the installed CPU base out there that most attacker's won't be going after a system containing a CPU from AMD. This may change in the next year or two though, at which point the vulns that are likely in their Platform Security Processor may bite them in the ass. Qualcomm on the other hand has taken the "fuck security" approach an…

> Hence why Android phones are often trapped on old versions of Android when launched or shortly thereafter The reason why most android phones don't get upgrades (or only one) to newer android versions has absolutely nothing to do with qualcomm lack of care regarding their cpu's security.

It has been quoted by Google developers on why Nexus 5 fell off the support track so early, around the same time Nexus 4 did: it took a herculean effort to get the binary drivers to even remotely work right on Android 6 due to being unable to drag in newer kernels.

This is partially why Treble is being worked on, to just completely disconnect the actual Linux-based HAL from "the OS", thus trying to negate a lot of the oblate stupidity from vendors like Qualcomm and have a shim in-between your actual phone, and Android itself, in hopes to fix stuff.

We seriously need more phone SoC vendors.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#173

Linus is angry, that always makes me happy. Lord knows where we would be today if we had leaders like this more frequently through history.

A leader getting angry is not a guarantee of getting good governance.

For a very memorable performance, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyD4p8_y8Kw

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#174
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I gather, some of this is cultural. His country of origin is just generally blunt and direct about things. That directness is generally associated with multicultural environments where subtler context-dependent communication simply does not work. Some of the quotes I am seeing here from him are things I think are unnecessarily harsh, but most are not. Discussions about something he has said or written seem…

> From what I gather, some of this cultural. His country of origin is just generally blunt and direct about things. I've heard this blunt(/direct/honest) argument quite often (and the same about my country, The Netherlands), but I've also seen Americans in IT who can be very blunt. I attribute it not to country_of_origin, but to the [autism] spectrum.

I am not autistic. I have spent a lot of time around the American military and I tend to be direct.

Anytime someone suggests that my directness means I must be autistic, they are a) making a faux polite personal attack that calls me a social retard and b) looking for an excuse to ignore and dismiss the substance of my points. I don't consider it to be a good faith form of engagement.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to call out bullshit doesn't mean having to curse it out. All Linus needs to do is say something like "I don't understand why this is here, and I'm not merging it until I do", rather than "They do literally insane things. They do things that do not make sense". The latter is not a technical argument, and it doesn't provide accuracy or clarity about next steps. "So somebody isn't telling the truth here. Som…

>> Being able to call out bullshit doesn't mean having to curse it out. Here we go. >> All Linus needs to do is say something like And all you need to do is be that nice and be as brilliant as Linus is. Oh, it's harder to be that smart than it is to be that nice? Maybe consider that for people as highly gifted as Linus, it actually isn't. What you take for granted as normal behavior isn't always normal to others, esp…

I think you're misreading my comment. The original post was "we need this brashness", my point is, we don't.

If a specific individual is unable to communicate without that, that's a totally different matter - being able to accommodate a wide church of people is a crucial diversity matter.

Would it have been clearer if I had said "All someone in a project leadership position needs to say ..." ? I'm arguing against that the notion that this approach is necessary, not that it shouldn't be accommodated.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#176
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably depends on how old you are. To me it was completely obvious and much, much clearer than most 'modern' user interfaces. Every person replying prefixes each line with > . Proper email clients do this automatically. This way you can tell from the number of >'s how far back on the 'stack' you have to go to know who wrote it. You start reading from the top, mentally associating an indent level (nr of >'s) with a…

People live in Slack and github today. The last time I had an actual conversation via email was probably 2 years ago. It's rather refreshing to see the Linux kernel keeping the tradition of using mailing lists. Every company I've worked at has felt the need to gather a bunch of people in a room (or teleconference) and "knock things out" in real-time. Then, everyone leaves and develops a severe case of amnesia. Never…

Google Docs is surprisingly good for some of this kind of deliberation. (We used it at Google.)

Especially when you use the 'suggesting' feature. It's a bit like a mini-PR for your docs.

Google Wave was supposed to be really good for this---better than email.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#177
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From what I gather, some of this cultural. His country of origin is just generally blunt and direct about things. I've heard this blunt(/direct/honest) argument quite often (and the same about my country, The Netherlands), but I've also seen Americans in IT who can be very blunt. I attribute it not to country_of_origin, but to the [autism] spectrum.

Whiteabootism

Whatabautism

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#178

Linus is angry, that always makes me happy. Lord knows where we would be today if we had leaders like this more frequently through history.

It does make me worry about the day that Linus retires. I imagine the kernel has enough momentum to carry on for a while but without a leader like Linus I can see it very slowly starting to unravel and quality issues starting to sneak in, much like we're seeing with post-Jobs Apple.

Thankfully it doesn't seem that time is coming any time soon.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#179
post #8

I think we should count ourselves lucky we have someone so good at spotting bullsh*t like this - and isn’t afraid to call it out as they sees it. Intel & friends have absolutely disgusted me lately, it could be all to easy to settle for less based on their standards, but let’s not let them set the standard - they’ve shown they can’t be trusted with quality and when they fail - they can’t be trusted to be transparent…

Yes, and so happy he doesn't follow the kinds of BS rules set out here: https://medium.com/@sandya.sankarram/unlearning-toxic-behavi...

People are quick to downvote calling such things BS, because it sounds just nice and well-intentioned when presented like that. The problem is that such "rules" can be and are used to harass and shame people who are focused on the code and just want to get things done, without either sugarcoating their thoughts or being intentional assholes about it. It also just plain ignores people who actually prefer getting plain, straight to-the-point reviews, and makes their preferences less valid.

In an ideal case, the reviewer "should" perhaps consult with the reviewee's therapist and craft the reviews to most benefit the reviewee based on their emotional state - but we don't have an ideal world of infinite resources, and some of these rules go beyond a reasonable "don't be an asshole" line and make code review into an even more mentally taxing task: one where you can't treat the other person as an adult peer, instead having to talk to them as if they were insecure teenagers who could misinterpret anything as rudeness or attacks on them.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#180
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and I both know there's a (large) middle ground.

Thank you for saying so and well spotted! You're absolutely right. There is very much a large middle ground. Is it possible that a middle ground of politely offering carefully tempered criticism might exist? It certainly does! Is it possible that it could potentially lack the same impact as the approach Linus used? This strikes me as also possible. My experience to date is that polite criticism carefully wrapped to a…

To me you'd get a better response from Linus if your patch wasn't some corporate garbage with ulterior motives. If the person who posted the patch had actually offered a solution that wasn't a pile of crap then there could be a dialog regarding ways to improve.
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